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Topic: What sail?

OK, gents, I'm ready to take some suggestions. After a few years of barely scraping by in a new business, revenues have been really good this year and I'm thinking about getting a new sail. I don't really NEED a new sail I just WANT a new sail (many, maybe all, of you know the feeling...). Sadly, a confluence of too many things I agreed to do ruined my spring season, and I'm only now ready to go sailing - just in time for the mainland USA doldrums. Oh well.

One thing that's happened is that my pal who had a second home down in South Carolina sold his place down there, so I now have old sails and boards from down there in my quiver (I would sail it when visiting). Right now the sail quiver is really overstocked, as is the board quiver, so though business has been slow I'm more fortunate than most windsurfers. If you are in the upstate NY area, I can probably swing good deals if you're looking for one.

Anyway, the aggregated sail locker looks like this (anything not in great condition is noted):

8.0 Super Freak (custom colors, a little long in the tooth but perhaps my fave summer sail)
7.5 Speed Freak
7.0 Super Freak UL (one of the flapper models)
6.6 GPS
6.7 Super Freak (custom colors)
6.3 Super Freak (same as 6.7, but old...likely will sell)
5.8 Super Freak
5.3 Super Freak (lightly used, but early 2000s design...I'd just as soon sell it)
4.7 Super Freak
4.2 Super Freak
3.5 Fire (very limited use...got it because it's the best color design ever - red flames on white)

Around here, I have to drive an hour+ to find great swells (Seneca is 75 min; Ontario 2 hours; Erie 4 hours). So the truth is that while I love onshore riding in big swells, I get it maybe 3-6 times a year. And I'm a pretty fit 62, but I'm not likely to start working on rotationals. So in light wind I like longboarding and freeride blasting, a little more than that and I go for mostly "old school" planing freestyle (monkey, donkey, 360s, etc.), once it gets to be enough to really jump (6.0 and under) I LOVE to jump, and when it's nuking I really prefer to spend my time backside wave sailing (as inside as I can get) - am pretty limited wave riding L vs R so I'm best wave riding lefty and jumping righty.

So I'm curious what the folks in the forum would recommend. Obviously, I don't need another Freak! Don't really think I want to go back to bigger freeride (i.e., Speed Freak 8.5). But I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on B&J sails in the <6.0 to 5.0 range, and perhaps to consolidate the sails in the 4.x.  I love the Fire, and can hold it in as much wind as I'm interested in riding, so probably wouldn't be interested in anything <4.0.

Am interested in hearing whether folks in my situation would go for QU4D or KS / KSS, or perhaps a SFME. Or maybe a mix? I do like the softness of the SFs (when you get to your 60s, you'll understand).

So...give me some suggestions! If you want to know what board these sails would be coupled with, let me know - I've got more boards than I can keep and multiple fins for each one...

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Re: What sail?

Well I can't say what sail you ought to get - that quiver is pretty amazing, but it looks like you might have some duplication at the top end I'd be glad to help you untangle ;^)

If your favorite sail is the 8.0, perhaps you don't really need that 7.5 Speedfreak? It would slot right into my quiver very nicely...

If you did want. to consider something for ultralight winds I can say that the 10.0 Speedfreak is a marvel - soft, light, pumpable and it will tolerate a LOT of wind. I take it you're not interested in foiling? I'm about your age (actually a little older) and I must say that for light winds a foil is a revelation and not all that hard to learn. If you might be trying it, then the sail to get would be something dual purpose that can be rigged with a tighter leech - maybe a Firelight? A 6.0 b&j sail is about right for most normal weight guys on a foil in 10-12

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3 (edited by Greg L 2019-07-25 17:06:03)

Re: What sail?

Hey Geoff, happy to hear your business is going well.
I'm currently finishing up my annual month long fling in Hatteras, couple more days left.
Probably 7yrs now since i scaled back my gear, happy for it. You helped me decide then.
Only two boards and four sails. I'm never feeling i have a hole until the conditions just get stupid, at 250lbs
8.0 GPX
6.5 GPX
5.5 GPX
4.7 Fire
Like you responsibilities get in the way of sailing now. If i was to be covered for all disciplines i'd still have gobs of equipment all over the house. Now a good back and forth B&Jump session clears the head of work stresses. I feel so happy having less gear.

8.0 and 6.5 GPX are the work horses. I love them, wouldn't replace them with anything else. Almost ordered another 6.5 the other night, ask Jeff. Had a 2019 Cheetah Ezzy loner for a few days, wasn't close, no spark.

The GPX's are underrated IMO. Powerful in low wind, fast when powered, has an extra gear acceleration when overpowered. Feels balanced and light through it all, with spark. Sailed the C. hole 6.5 3hrs in 30mph wind.
 
If i needed to update 5.5GPX and 4.7 Fire i'd maybe look at the Firelight or KS3. For a heavy guy the 5.5 GPX really does the job however. The Fire is just an awesome sail for B&J, so so fast, stable, and durable. It still get's comments on the water, visually still nothing like it. Actually my previously enjoyed Fires were sailing along side me today, still looking and shredding great. 6.5 Firepower and 5.5 Fire.

I like continuity. If you like the Dacron sails maybe go 7.5 Speedfreak then narrow down to three more Freaks.

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Re: What sail?

Geoff wrote:

OK, gents, I'm ready to take some suggestions. After a few years of barely scraping by in a new business, revenues have been really good this year and I'm thinking about getting a new sail. I don't really NEED a new sail I just WANT a new sail (many, maybe all, of you know the feeling...). Sadly, a confluence of too many things I agreed to do ruined my spring season, and I'm only now ready to go sailing - just in time for the mainland USA doldrums. Oh well.

One thing that's happened is that my pal who had a second home down in South Carolina sold his place down there, so I now have old sails and boards from down there in my quiver (I would sail it when visiting). Right now the sail quiver is really overstocked, as is the board quiver, so though business has been slow I'm more fortunate than most windsurfers. If you are in the upstate NY area, I can probably swing good deals if you're looking for one.

Anyway, the aggregated sail locker looks like this (anything not in great condition is noted):

8.0 Super Freak (custom colors, a little long in the tooth but perhaps my fave summer sail)
7.5 Speed Freak
7.0 Super Freak UL (one of the flapper models)
6.6 GPS
6.7 Super Freak (custom colors)
6.3 Super Freak (same as 6.7, but old...likely will sell)
5.8 Super Freak
5.3 Super Freak (lightly used, but early 2000s design...I'd just as soon sell it)
4.7 Super Freak
4.2 Super Freak
3.5 Fire (very limited use...got it because it's the best color design ever - red flames on white)

Around here, I have to drive an hour+ to find great swells (Seneca is 75 min; Ontario 2 hours; Erie 4 hours). So the truth is that while I love onshore riding in big swells, I get it maybe 3-6 times a year. And I'm a pretty fit 62, but I'm not likely to start working on rotationals. So in light wind I like longboarding and freeride blasting, a little more than that and I go for mostly "old school" planing freestyle (monkey, donkey, 360s, etc.), once it gets to be enough to really jump (6.0 and under) I LOVE to jump, and when it's nuking I really prefer to spend my time backside wave sailing (as inside as I can get) - am pretty limited wave riding L vs R so I'm best wave riding lefty and jumping righty.

So I'm curious what the folks in the forum would recommend. Obviously, I don't need another Freak! Don't really think I want to go back to bigger freeride (i.e., Speed Freak 8.5). But I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on B&J sails in the <6.0 to 5.0 range, and perhaps to consolidate the sails in the 4.x.  I love the Fire, and can hold it in as much wind as I'm interested in riding, so probably wouldn't be interested in anything <4.0.

Am interested in hearing whether folks in my situation would go for QU4D or KS / KSS, or perhaps a SFME. Or maybe a mix? I do like the softness of the SFs (when you get to your 60s, you'll understand).

So...give me some suggestions! If you want to know what board these sails would be coupled with, let me know - I've got more boards than I can keep and multiple fins for each one...

Hey Geoff, Guess it depends on what you want... bit of change in feel? Personally, For 6.0 to 4.0 I would go KS3 5.8, 5.2, 4.6, 4.0 but if you want softer for Nuke conditions swap 4.6, 4.0 KS3 for SFME 4.7, 4.2. Or if you aren't into the KS3 you could Swap the 5.8, 5.2 for QU4D or FL. if you want a little softer feel in the QU4D(more roach?) or bit more back hand balance in the FL for more sedate riding. I like the KS3 because it is so light in the hands & maneuverable, shockingly fast, & it has so much range that I simply wouldn't want to sail a bigger sail even though I could - I mean why sail a 5.2 when you could be on a 4.2?  I haven't tried the latest generation of QU4D or FL but I can't imagine what it would offer over the KS3 except a different "feel". I also haven't sailed 5.8 KS3 so extrapolating a bit from the 5.2 but I loved the 5.2...

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Re: What sail?

Well, part of the overlap is that the quiver got split into two locations, with older sails going south to my friend's place and new ones staying at home. But now that he sold his 2nd home I have the sails back and - obviously - don't need them all! So I'll likely sell a few, cheap, for sure!

Also, here in upstate NY, we get a really big difference in conditions, from light winds on local finger lakes to nuking winds and huge swells on the great lakes. So I tend to buy sails to match boards and the conditions they'll be used on, rather than by wind range. Thus, I'll never have as compact a quiver as Greg because I have a course board, a windSUP, a freerace board, a small wave board and a high wind board.

Not interested in foiling, really, because I've got boards for those conditions that I enjoy (course board and windSUP).

Not interested in a 10.0. Been there, done that, it works if you live where the wind is steady but doesn't work so well if it's light and fluffy but puffy (which is what we get here). That ends up in a lot of schlogging while holding up a telephone pole.

7.5 Speed Freak is my main go-to now; works on the course board and free race very nicely, and is the most common wind range here. The 8.0 and 6.7 SF are nice on the small wave board (if it's well-powered), the 8.0 GREAT on the windSUP (flat water riding for when I don't bring the course board). So the 8.0, 7.5 and 6.7 are locked-in, I'm not changing them. Also, I love my 3.5 Fire, only wishing it were a 3.7 or 4.0 as I don't see many 3.5 days. But it's staying as a storm sail and the hottest looking design ever! Bring it back!!!

Once it gets below 6.7, I mostly wanting to go jumping and, if conditions permit, inside onshore wave riding. Can't get really long rides deep on the inside, but the waves are better! I tend to take excess sail for the outside, and creep in towards shore until I'm underpowered, and then try to stay in that transition zone for better waves and not being so overpowered. So the sail range under consideration would be 6.5-4.0. The 5.3 and 4.2 are in very good condition but are old models I'd sell.

Maybe a change in feel, as Caleb suggests, but I would think the choice would be KS3, QU4D or SFME. I really like the softness of the SF classic, so I suppose the SFME would be the closest to my existing sails, but I'm wondering if my predilection for jumping would be better served with a KS3 or QU4D.

Maybe Jeff could make me a custom SFME with the old Fire design as the pattern!

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6

Re: What sail?

... or get a custom kss! https://www.instagram.com/p/Brw5n4-g-qP/ this is a 2.8 kgs 5,5: the little pvc strip at the mast makes it somehow freak like, still retaining the ks3 stability https://www.instagram.com/p/BxLDNPuFZe1/

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Re: What sail?

sergio wrote:

... or get a custom kss! https://www.instagram.com/p/Brw5n4-g-qP/ this is a 2.8 kgs 5,5: the little pvc strip at the mast makes it somehow freak like, still retaining the ks3 stability https://www.instagram.com/p/BxLDNPuFZe1/

Wow, that's 0.5 kg less than the standard sail. Definitely significant. How'd you cut the weight?

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Re: What sail?

ah I don't know but it seems the regular construction, maybe some kevlar lines less. I measured the weight with a luggage scale that should be pretty accurate (same weight at the airports) and the 2017s are: 4.9>2,68 kg 4.3> 2,3 kgs

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9 (edited by Geoff 2019-08-01 16:35:21)

Re: What sail?

Interesting, Sergio!

I assume the KSS is a little "harder" than the KS3...seems like that was the thing of resurrecting the spiderlock design. Being that I like softer sails, I might like the KS3 better - I was unaware that the KS3 and KSS are available in custom designs. I assume yours was a custom?

Looking at the blurbs and what HSM has in stock, I'm leaning to the QU4D in 6.0 and 5.2...leaving the high wind choices in limbo. The blurb says the QU4D is for a variety of wave conditions (read, junky mushy onshore small waves) and for jumping. That sounds like me!

Thoughts?

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Re: What sail?

well I tried the ks3s when they showed up, at least once a year, and always found them a bit too phisical to me, so kept on sailing quads, softer and more forgiving in small sizes, keeping the big FL. then tried the kss even if I worried the same as you, but in a week I changed all my quiver. soo light and flickable, and with prompt planing attitude, that I was almost just using the 4.9 even in 5.7 FL  winds. So, being it dismissed in 2019 I asked Jeff for a custom 5.5 with an updated, a bit wider web placement. he then added that pvc strip that makes it sweeter but with a full profile, that when left at minimum oh-dh takes me back to the gridlock times, but with nowadays stability. I use them happily in ocean and lake sessions, just kept the 3.7 freak me that I use 4-5 times a year. cheers!

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11 (edited by Geoff 2019-08-03 08:13:22)

Re: What sail?

After sleeping on it...I'm leaning SFME.

Never had one, it's a wave design...and I remembered how much I love the silence of a freak.

UPDATE

5.8 SFME
4.6 KSS
4.0 KS3

The HSM online store had some used KSS and KS3 sails that were good deals. I'll give the 4.6 KSS a try and if I want to go back to stay with my 4.7 Freak, it's not that big of a deal. The 4.0 KS3 will likely replace the 4.2 SF, which must be one of the 2nd or 3rd years they were made, and the 4.0 KS3 to 3.5 Fire is a better gap. The colors on the 5.8 SFME are great, and I couldn't resist trying a Freak made more for waves and jumping.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

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12 (edited by davide 2019-08-02 06:36:41)

Re: What sail?

Geoff wrote:

Interesting, Sergio!

I assume the KSS is a little "harder" than the KS3...seems like that was the thing of resurrecting the spiderlock design. Being that I like softer sails, I might like the KS3 better - I was unaware that the KS3 and KSS are available in custom designs. I assume yours was a custom?

Looking at the blurbs and what HSM has in stock, I'm leaning to the QU4D in 6.0 and 5.2...leaving the high wind choices in limbo. The blurb says the QU4D is for a variety of wave conditions (read, junky mushy onshore small waves) and for jumping. That sounds like me!

Thoughts?

Hi Geoff, I am an absolutely beginner on the KS3, Jeff (may-the-gods-send-him-joy-and-happiness) sent me a 4.9 to try and I used it twice. Once in "just right" conditions and the second time very overpowered (I am 158 pounds, and people 30 pounds heavier  were on a 4.0-4.5).

So take the following with a grain of salt but the first impressions are that I like the sail a real lot and yes, it is very direct, but strangely enough it did not tire me out at all. I am not sure why. Probably because there is no back hand to speak of, you have a way of controlling power accurately with the back hand, so you never "fight" the sail, and when you start playing in the swells the sail disappears. The power is there, but you do not feel it. I don't think I ever been in such control in the crazy mixture of swell and cross chop at Crissy (in San Francisco). First impressions are that this is an ideal high wind sail ...

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Re: What sail?

davide wrote:
Geoff wrote:

Interesting, Sergio!

I assume the KSS is a little "harder" than the KS3...seems like that was the thing of resurrecting the spiderlock design. Being that I like softer sails, I might like the KS3 better - I was unaware that the KS3 and KSS are available in custom designs. I assume yours was a custom?

Looking at the blurbs and what HSM has in stock, I'm leaning to the QU4D in 6.0 and 5.2...leaving the high wind choices in limbo. The blurb says the QU4D is for a variety of wave conditions (read, junky mushy onshore small waves) and for jumping. That sounds like me!

Thoughts?

Hi Geoff, I am an absolutely beginner on the KS3, Jeff (may-the-gods-send-him-joy-and-happiness) sent me a 4.9 to try and I used it twice. Once in "just right" conditions and the second time very overpowered (I am 158 pounds, and people 30 pounds heavier  were on a 4.0-4.5).

So take the following with a grain of salt but the first impressions are that I like the sail a real lot and yes, it is very direct, but strangely enough it did not tire me out at all. I am not sure why. Probably because there is no back hand to speak of, you have a way of controlling power accurately with the back hand, so you never "fight" the sail, and when you start playing in the swells the sail disappears. The power is there, but you do not feel it. I don't think I ever been in such control in the crazy mixture of swell and cross chop at Crissy (in San Francisco). First impressions are that this is an ideal high wind sail ...

You have seen the light! Yes, exactly how I feel about the sail. The 4.3 is especially excellent. You can be overpowered & still be "loose" ... not locked down like most sails. It is more physical in a way - you are encouraged to maneuver more & not settle into a groove so to speak, but otherwise very precise to control.

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14 (edited by davide 2019-08-13 04:58:48)

Re: What sail?

calebchinookRD wrote:
davide wrote:
Geoff wrote:

Interesting, Sergio!

I assume the KSS is a little "harder" than the KS3...seems like that was the thing of resurrecting the spiderlock design. Being that I like softer sails, I might like the KS3 better - I was unaware that the KS3 and KSS are available in custom designs. I assume yours was a custom?

Looking at the blurbs and what HSM has in stock, I'm leaning to the QU4D in 6.0 and 5.2...leaving the high wind choices in limbo. The blurb says the QU4D is for a variety of wave conditions (read, junky mushy onshore small waves) and for jumping. That sounds like me!

Thoughts?

Hi Geoff, I am an absolutely beginner on the KS3, Jeff (may-the-gods-send-him-joy-and-happiness) sent me a 4.9 to try and I used it twice. Once in "just right" conditions and the second time very overpowered (I am 158 pounds, and people 30 pounds heavier  were on a 4.0-4.5).

So take the following with a grain of salt but the first impressions are that I like the sail a real lot and yes, it is very direct, but strangely enough it did not tire me out at all. I am not sure why. Probably because there is no back hand to speak of, you have a way of controlling power accurately with the back hand, so you never "fight" the sail, and when you start playing in the swells the sail disappears. The power is there, but you do not feel it. I don't think I ever been in such control in the crazy mixture of swell and cross chop at Crissy (in San Francisco). First impressions are that this is an ideal high wind sail ...

You have seen the light! Yes, exactly how I feel about the sail. The 4.3 is especially excellent. You can be overpowered & still be "loose" ... not locked down like most sails. It is more physical in a way - you are encouraged to maneuver more & not settle into a groove so to speak, but otherwise very precise to control.

Today I tried the 4.3 for the first time and it is indeed a beautiful sail. True that I was in  semi-ideal conditions, just powered to slightly over-powered, but I am very impressed by what this sail let an average sailor like myself get away with.

Swell riding, dropping in, ramps, high wind jumps, it seems to conquer it all. It goes upwind like a tractor, and it is quite fast, for a wave sail, if you keep it steady and don't "activate" the de-powering thingy.

KS3 4.9 and 4.3 are changing my high wind sailing smile smile

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15

Re: What sail?

hi Geoff sorry for the late...

"I'm leaning to the QU4D in 6.0 and 5.2...leaving the high wind choices in limbo. The blurb says the QU4D is for a variety of wave conditions (read, junky mushy onshore small waves) and for jumping. That sounds like me! Thoughts?"

I find the 2017 Kss direct (in a nice way) but less tiring that the regular ones. Of course it may be a bit more delicate but 80% of my sailing is at Lake Garda. The custom 5.5 with the pvc strip is a bit softer but with a super full base profile, that at 2.8 kgs makes it the ultimate light wind sail for my chopriding!

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16

Re: What sail?

Some feedback!

5.5 on Seneca today, with 1 foot swells give or take, so I got to use my new 5.8 Super Freak Maui Edition! It's definitely more geared for wave riding (such as we get it on Seneca) than the SF Classic, and had me in more vertical positions than I'm used to seeing...though as this was only my 2nd day out in 2019, I'm not seeing much lately! The lightness, high foot and short clew really had me in positions I wouldn't have thought possible with a regular freak, much more vertical on the wave and with more radical oversheeting as well. Got me into a couple of efforts that resulted in a pretty good smacking!! lol

Actually, that's a good thing, it shows expanding skill sets (which, in windsurfing, is always accompanied with a good smacking).

I've got to get used to the slightly different exit handling, fell a number of times because it handles more like a modern sail than the SF Classic. More to work on! Though, very likely, some of those falls were just my being a little rusty.

Not that anyone needs me to chime in, but the 2019 SFME is a great sail! Hopefully, the 4.6 KSS and 4.0 KS3 will get their test rides in the near future...

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17

Re: What sail?

Update...

After riding the 2019 5.8 SFME, I realized that it really would be better to fill the 5.8 - 4.6 gap, rather than wait to decide what model sail I liked.

So...having purchased a KS3, KSS and SFME, I couldn't resist the great deal on a 5.2 QU4D!

Now I just have to ride them all (acknowledging that I might not have the "best" size for each of them).

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