1 Topic by Edward

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Topic: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Dear Jeffrey,

I'm the happy owner of 2009 Fires 4.2, 4.7, 5.3 and 5.8. I use the recommended hotrods in all sails, except in the 4.2. In the 4.2 I use the 400 hotrod. I only use the 4.2 occasionally and therefore never bought the recommended 370. Sailing the 4.2 is completely different from my other Fires, in a negative way: too powerfull and nervous. It feels overpowered at windspeeds in which 4.2 normally is the right choice for me. Is this due to the use of a suboptimal mast? Any recommendations for rigging my 4.2 on the 400 hotrod? Many thanks and best regards,
Edward

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2 Reply by uwe

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Hi,

how about your weight, maybe you can go with an 370 hotrod top if available....
on the 400 base...

aloha uwe

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3 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

uwe wrote:

Hi,

how about your weight, maybe you can go with an 370 hotrod top if available....
on the 400 base...

aloha uwe

Hi Uwe,

I'm 75kg. Interesting suggestion, economical also. However, may not be easy to get hold of a 370 hotrod top...

Sailed my Fire 4.7 today and was surprised again how well it behaves in overpowered conditions. The 4.2 on a hotrod 400 is the opposite...

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4 Reply by Geoff

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

If you don't use it much, a Nuevo 370 will give better performance at a reasonable price. I had a similar issue with my 4.2 SF, and went with the Nuevo and it was a good decision.

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5 Reply by Surfingsen

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Geoff wrote:

If you don't use it much, a Nuevo 370 will give better performance at a reasonable price. I had a similar issue with my 4.2 SF, and went with the Nuevo and it was a good decision.

Yup - had the same issue with my 4.2 SF and got a used HR 370 - what a difference
Agree with Geoff - get a lower carbon content mast preferably a Hot but look through the mast thread to find suitable (cheaper) alternatives as this is just for one sail - but it will make a big difference in handling.

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6 Reply by Jeroensurf

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

The 4m mast is sailable in the 4.2 Fire  if you are 90kg or more altough a 370 is still reccomandable.
For the lighter peope a 370 mast is a must as the sail with a 4m becomes just too stiff, even with a 370 top.
So invest in lots of food or a cheap (2th hand) 370 RDM mast wink
With the proper most the 4.2 behaves imo at least as good as the 4.7
I don,t know where you are from but if you don,t wanna break the bank we have in Holland the CAAS masts as excelent cheap alternative, in Germany Ohana masts, in France Side-On and in the UK the cc curved K3 masts works fine. If you can find an old Powerex RDM on the 2th hand market they will work fine as well but stay away from the stifftop masts as Gaastra, Severne, Naish en the wird Norths.

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7 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

OK thanks for all replies. It seems clear that a 370 mast is the way to go for my Fire 4.2. I'll try to pick one up.
@Jeroensurf: I'm from NL. Will get in touch with ZW6 for CAAS or Nuevo.

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8 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Can I ask your opinion about a Maverx stilo HD 165 370 RDM in combination with my Fire 4.2?
I never heard about this mast brand. I only know its a constant curve.

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9 Reply by Jeroensurf

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

I havent tried the latest MaverX but the ones from 2008 where too stiff in the top for the Hotsails.
Nice mast and light too but they just didnt work well with the sails.

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10 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

I finally managed to pick up a 370 Hotrod (I looked for a second hand). Can’t wait to try it in my Fire 4.2 and happy not having to skip 4.2 sessions anymore…

I now have 3 masts for 4 sails (4.2, 4.7, 5.3 & 5.8) which I think is quite a lot (I spend more money on masts than on boards (OK, I sail old single fins)). Now that I have a 370, I thought I might as well pick up a Fire 3.7, but to my unpleasant surprise I then need yet another mast (340)! Based on my experience with a 400 mast in a 4.2 Fire, my guess is that a 370 mast in a 3.7 Fire is not going to work either.

I don’t know anything about windsurfing sail technology, but isn’t it possible to design a sail range from let’s say 3.7 to 6.3  around two mast lengths? Maybe not an attractive option when part of your business is selling masts (not that I want to suggest that this is the underlying motivation), but I’m sure it would please the average recreational windsurfer.

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11 Reply by calebchinookRD

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Hi Edward,

I understand what you mean that is allot of masts. However, I think in the case of the 3.7, it will rig well on the 370 - the specs are pretty close & I think it takes about 30+cm extension on the 340 anyway. I would get the 3.7 & not worry about the 340.

Later, I think if you could get newer more compact sails in the large sizes & perhaps not need the 430. For instance, with a mixed quiver of newer/compact larger sail(Firelight 5.3-6.0 rig on 400cm mast) & older/taller small sails like your Fire's you would end up with your 2 mast quiver...

Last edited by calebchinookRD (2012-11-01 07:00:26)

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12 Reply by Dolf

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Hi Edward,

As I am not familiar with the Fires, I won't disagree with Caleb. However I do have experience with the Freaks, especially the UL's and there the problem with a longer mast is that it is too stiff for the smaller sails so the sail feels stiff like a barn door. The 3.7 Freaks definitely prefer a 340.

Why not try it? If it works you are lucky. Otherwise you will have to keep your eye out for a good used 340 Hot Rod.

aloha,

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13 Reply by Jeroensurf

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Its also about personal taste, I have a good 340mast but prever my Freak on the 370.
Edward, if i was you I would go for a Freak instead of a Fire in 3.7. when the wind is that strong that you need a 3.7 its very gusty as well and the Freak is at that moment a bit more comfortable/more in control as the Fire.
just my2cents

Did you sail today? it was nice 4.7weather at Wijk. smile

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14 Reply by Jeffrey Henderson

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Edward wrote:

I finally managed to pick up a 370 Hotrod (I looked for a second hand). Can’t wait to try it in my Fire 4.2 and happy not having to skip 4.2 sessions anymore…

I now have 3 masts for 4 sails (4.2, 4.7, 5.3 & 5.8) which I think is quite a lot (I spend more money on masts than on boards (OK, I sail old single fins)). Now that I have a 370, I thought I might as well pick up a Fire 3.7, but to my unpleasant surprise I then need yet another mast (340)! Based on my experience with a 400 mast in a 4.2 Fire, my guess is that a 370 mast in a 3.7 Fire is not going to work either.

I don’t know anything about windsurfing sail technology, but isn’t it possible to design a sail range from let’s say 3.7 to 6.3  around two mast lengths? Maybe not an attractive option when part of your business is selling masts (not that I want to suggest that this is the underlying motivation), but I’m sure it would please the average recreational windsurfer.

Yes, possible- For example the Liquids all can rig on a 430- 5.5- to 7.5m. But that does not mean that the 7.5m on a 460 is worse, in fact for many it is better, but it is "possible" in the same way you 4.2 is "possible" to sail with a 400.

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15 Reply by Nico

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Jeroensurf wrote:

...Edward, if i was you I would go for a Freak instead of a Fire in 3.7. when the wind is that strong that you need a 3.7 its very gusty as well and the Freak is at that moment a bit more comfortable/moree in control as the Fire...

exactly what I have done. I'm 90 kg, so Fire 4,5 and 5,3, 400 mast, but below a nice used 4,0 yellow Superfreak for the real storm, mast 400 with some variotop extension

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16 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

OK,thanks. No direct need for a 340 mast when I can pick up a 3.7 (SF!).

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17 Reply by Dolf

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Edward wrote:

OK,thanks. No direct need for a 340 mast when I can pick up a 3.7 (SF!).

"Need" is such a variable term when it comes to windsurfing gear. i "need" my 340 for my 3.7. wink

Aloha,

Last edited by Dolf (2012-11-05 08:03:20)

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18 Reply by calebchinookRD

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Edward wrote:

OK,thanks. No direct need for a 340 mast when I can pick up a 3.7 (SF!).

Hi Edward,

I still think a 3.7 Fire would be a good choice too. I personally sailed & loved the Fire 3.7 since 08 till 2011 & only just switched as I like the SFME 3.7 because it feels like a softer Fire - it has a similar "pull" as Fire but delivered in a softer way......

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19 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Hi, now that I got a 370 mast I should replace the loop extension in my Fire 4.2 for the fixed pin mast head system. To do this I removed the mast tip pin from the extension loop and hooked it under the two side loops inside the mast head. I think it's OK but also noticed in my other Fire's that already had a fixed mast tip pin that there is a little screw in the pin. Should I put such a screw in the mast tip pin of the 4.2? I can't really see the function of this screw but I'd rather not go out in the waves with an esssential screw missing... The rigging guide describes replacing the fixed pin for the loop extension but not vice versa, hence my question here.
thanks for your advise.

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20 Reply by calebchinookRD

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

The screw helps keep the ropes in place. Under tension it won't matter, but when removing the mast it may help keep the plug with the sail.....

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21 Reply by Nico

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

Imho screw is essential, otherwise pulling the mast when unrigging canc cause the pin to be dragged inside the mastsleeve, and then removing it can be a slow work, I experienced this with the mast head plug; or you can loose it if you don't pay attention.
About the smallest sail of the quiver I'd always prefer the SF, because between my Smacks, Fires and Superfreaks I find the Fire the most direct sail, so I can imagine that rigging it over a more rigid mast can give to a lightweight rider a little bit too rigid feeling. On the opposite the soft feeling of SF can be slightly "corrected" by a stiffer mast.
Therefore imho the best thing for a sail that you'll use only in some stormy day is that you can crush it under the other Fires and don't mind about it, and SF is that sail. My two (euro-)cent

Last edited by Nico (2012-11-08 01:07:43)

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22 Reply by Edward

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Re: 400 hotrod in 2009 Fire 4.2

OK thanks! Can imagine that function of the screw. Will drive in a stainless steel screw.
Edward

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