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I have been sailing a starboard 12'6 for 5 yrs. I sail in 5 - 35 mph winds on 1'-2' slop mostly. I'm wondering if I would be losing anything by going down to a 10' - 10'6 board. My reason for going down in length would be to gain manueverability for both sailing and paddle surfing.
I have found switching out on different days has been good recently. Have re-discovered my Kona One with our light winds of late which has lots of glide at 11'5 but makes slow turns compared to my 10 ft. board. That 12'6 of yours must really glide along but, on a wave face esp. SUPing, I would think you'd notice major differences in maneuverability compared to a 10 to 10'6 board. My 10 ft board cuts amazingly well. I love both lengths though, on different days. Windsurfing, I get out through the break faster on my longer boards. But, if I have to make a quick turn to catch a wave or, avoid a wave, would rather be on the shorter board......
Thanks for your reply. I have lots of experience surfing all kinds of boards so I guess my question more specifically is with a mostly light wind, big board for sailing, am I losing any thing by going down in size? A 10' board is still big but are there any reasons I might miss the extra length? It's the sailing side of this that is new to me.
Just for some background, I'm in north Florida where I have alot of onshore days of much less than 15 mph and variable swell. I weigh 85 kg. The boards I use are the Kona One, an Amundson 11'3 SUP and the Starboard 10' SUP. Sails, mostly the 7.0 superfreak, a 9.0 aerotech (recently,and not in swell larger than 2 feet), and a 6.2 NP atlas. On the Starboard, I immediately put a longer fin (11.5 inches) than the never-used stock fin. The Starboard is a SUP surfing machine in waves if you have some experience and size, and you switch out the fin. If you use this particular board to windsurf, make sure you screw in mast base in the forward-most hole (there are 3). It's more maneuverable and tacks/jibes faster than the above boards. Since its wider also, its awesome going out through big white water in terms of stability. However, it doesn't gather speed as fast when going out as the longer boards. And it drifts downwind more and doesn't point as well upwind. And it doesn't plane the same as the above boards either.....So, what am I losing when I switch to 10' from the 11.5' ? GLIDE, speed on the open water, gathering speed when going out through the break, pointing upwind ability, and upwind real estate (i.e. I'm drifting downwind).... What am I gaining? Faster tacks/jibes, and with this particular 10' board, better surfing rocker so I can drop in later in more critical sections. On the other hand, I have to because the longer boards catch the wave sooner......
That's awesome, thanks. It's the pointing up-wind and staying up-wind that I was worried about. I'd like to sell the big board to make money and space for the shorter one, but don't know if I'll be sorry. Is your starboard the whopper? If so, I'd be interested in any thing else you had to say about it.
yes it is. Great board. At first, had to deflect comments from colleagues who surf/windsurf/SUP/kite about it's width. But that was 3 years ago. Ever since some of them have seen it work, a different story...Again, it depends on your size and the sea conditions where you go out. For the almost always choppy, onshore, bad form conditions here in north Florida--and for my 6'1" & 85 kg--this thing works for me. And I've tried a lot of boards to SUP and windsurf in the waves (here in FL). The longer fin makes a HUGE difference, and the mast foot placement in the forward position is best for the lighter winds. Of course there are more suitable boards for heavier winds, but if you only want one more (I would keep that 12'6), you will like this one. I windsurfed it in 25-30 mph in Biscayne Bay, and yes I was on the tail but was able to control it. Something to keep in mind is that you need to run all over the deck to make it work, but that extra width and volume (with the sail or paddle for power) gets it through tough white water, up wave faces, or flat sections riding the wave. I love running the deck, like cross stepping on a longboard; have never been a big fan of footstraps in waves....I've even gotten it a few feet off the ground ramping up a face, but only fully powered on one of those rare cross shore winds days. It's tough as nails, my kids call it the beast. Too bad starboard didn't think of that name, I've never liked the name whopper. Oh well, from what I hear, it's either their best-selling or one of their best selling SUPs worldwide.....
I have no reason to disagree about the Whopper, but you may find it instructive to check out the Exocet Curve line as well. I have the predecessor - Kona 11.5 - and it is a mighty fine board for surf sailing. The Curve 11.5 if minimally different from the 3 fin version. Numerous posts from me on this site, and from many others elsewhere on the web. If you really want smaller, I can't imagine the 10.5 is also not a really nice board. Very solid but not heavy, thin rails for good carving. I suspect the 10.5 would be a bit small for SUP, but the 11.5 would work for a skilled surfer (not great in SUP mode, but OK). This board is designed primarily for sailing.
Thanks for the suggestion. I actually have a kona 11'5. I am just not a skilled enough windsurfer to take advantage of this board. I am coming to this as a long time surfer and realized I enjoy myself more on a wider more stable board. I also think at the slower speeds a board with more rocker in the tail is a lot easier to turn. Plus, the board has to surf well when paddling.
The whopper looks fun, but I wonder if it might be a little too specialized.
If you need more info or advice I recommend taking a look at this forum - a very enthusiastic bunch
http://www.standupzone.com/forum
try do a search on Whopper and see what you find 
That's a good suggestion, I have looked there. I think we are covering it well. Eabmoto, keep your 12'6 and your Kona 11'5, and add the whopper if you can. You will end up enjoying all three boards more, as they complement each other in the seemingly infinite conditions out there...
I've been on the zone forum a lot. I even asked about the whopper over there, but that didn't really go any where. But like you said Todd, most people don't like it for sailing. I still think it could work for me. I would definitely keep the 12'6 if I got a whopper. My original post here was to see if a similarly shaped board as my 12'6 would lose very much up-wind ability if it were only 10'-10'6. The trend definitely seems to be going towards shorter boards. I guess it really all comes to personal preference.
Isn't that the truth, personal preference...You have really got me thinking about my sailing sessions on the whopper. Some of the best I've ever had, and a few of the worst. Best: side onshore about 13 mph average, 7.5 sail, solid 4-5 foot groundswell coming straight in. Unbelievably fun. Another day,with similar wind angle and strength but smaller waves, used a 6.2 and had a great time. Another, a big choppy cross shore wind day with ave 22 mph, but with the swell still coming straight in ---> good time. Worst: well developed nor'easter, victory at sea conditions, should have never gone out. Hard time even beach starting because the big ol' board getting tossed and turned like the Minnow in Gilligan's Island, ended up ripping an upper panel of the sail BUT it wasn't a Superfreak, so maybe.....anyway, another bad day, in a hurry, screwed my universal into rear/aft hole, ended up drifting around out there in pretty good conditions wondering why 'til de-rigging and seeing my mistake. And finally, a little too much onshore, like ESE, and 10 mph ave with the 7.5 and some swell, and I barely moved through the break. Don't even think an 8.0 superfreak would have saved the whopper there. Needed a narrower, longer board with the 8.0 SF....I definitely think the whopper would work for you. I was originally a surfer too. Since i started windsurfing and SUP surfing, my surfboards have become wall art--they look kinda cool sittin' there. Nowadays, it has to be either windless or straight offshore winds and head high before I take the prone surfboards out. Waxing the board has turned from a olfactory labor of love to a pain----bring on the soft SF, that awesome feeling of a full sail ( a great beer by the way, made of course in Hood River Oregon), or a paddle in my hands with that standing upright view of the swell.....Sorry I rambled on, it's Sat. AM with no waves and no wind.......
Not sure what it's worth, but I have a 2007 12'2.
I've tried the 12'6 and it a freight ship in comparison when it came to wave riding. I tried a 10' as well (i think it was the same series) and it was way nicer in the waves, however a total drag paddling with no glide compared to the 12'2 (the 12'6 also lost out in the glide section. The 12'2 is 26 3/4 wide only). The 12'2 is magic. Really. It turns really good when wave sailing, still is quite good in the gliding section paddling (Bart de Zwart told me that it only lost out by 4 minutes compared to his 12'6 2011 carbon racer when he paddled for one hour in Kahului harbor). however, the 12'2 doesn't turn on a dime, but compared to the 12'6, it's a shortboard.
that doesn't solve your issue though, now does it!? 
I have a Sealion 7'6", which my kids use for paddling and I have used for some flat water sailing. It is a dream in the waves, really. I've seen both Bruno André and Jeff Henderson rip 2-3m waves apart with that one. It's 135 litres and 70cm wide I think.
I'd say keep the 12'6 for flat water paddling and sailing, and buy yourself a Sealion Original, or if you are in to Starboards, anything surfy at 9' and less. Check out the Sealion blog for some images. It's not that hard to paddle out really despite it's short length.
btw, I paddle and sail in Swedish flat waters with these boards but have ridden them on Maui and the Sealion as well in France.
Todd: it looks like your bad times on the whopper were not the boards fault, mostly. I can't wait to try one. As of right now it won't be till early spring when the shop here builds up there rental fleet.
Niclas: I've never looked into the 12'2, but I've read a lot about it here on this forum. I've never seen one for sale either. I have however looked at the Sea Lion a lot. I am 6'4 and 225 lbs./102 kg.
I don't think the 7'6 would work for me although I'd love to see what it was like to stand on. What do you think of the 9' version? I can't even imagine a board that would fit inside the back of my truck!
The Sealion XL (155 or 165 litres, not sure which) blew me away - I didn't think such a big board would behave almost the same as the original Sealion. It really turns well! Check out the images of Jeff here from the french event Sealion Mondial http://www.sealion.ahd-boards.com/wp-co … er-ilo.jpg
A video of which Sealion to choose and how to ride them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXGYDT- … re=related
A video of the event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSVvRwHC … r_embedded
That SeaLion XL continues to sound interesting. Was going to demo one at the Hatteras Wave event last September but the hurricane cancelled it. Then, got interested in the Thommen 165 but VERY hard to get one in US. Is the volume on SeaLion XL really as high as 165? And it has a mast track instead of threaded holes--I like that. Those YouTube videos are good demonstrations, thank you, Niclas. Reconsidering the SeaLion for sure. I definitely need the higher volume, I tried 140 L boards --2 different ones--for a while, and with this typical choppy 10-13 mph, mostly onshore wind here, they just weren't as fun as the 160 plus volume boards.....
yes no problem. I have the Kona One for river/lake and open ocean cruising. The SeaLion would be another wave board. One thing I have heard about it that I need to check out on the demo is that it doesn't handle chop well. That was addressing specifically the smaller SeaLion, so I was thinking that the XL could handle the chop....
Some great images of the Sealion here from this past weekend: http://www.sealion.ahd-boards.com/2012/ … ekend/2360
Nice images of the SeaLion.....Well, I found a used 2010 Kona 11'5 last week for a good price, so I joined the many other satisfied folks like Geoff, Caleb from chinook, et al. I can see why people speak highly of this board. Seamless transitions on and off plane. When on plane, it turns like a much shorter board. The increased water line off plane gets it going out through the break when underpowered. Pretty easy to quickly uphaul in the impact zone when not enough wind to waterstart (usually around here). Looks like the 8.0 SF is back on the wish list because it seems a good match with the K 11'5......
If the K 11'5" is your "big" board (i.e., no superplaner/f-type stuff), then 7.0 UL would be my #1 recommendation IF your main thing is moderate-to-light wind surf sailing, on or off the plane. In low teens, onshore conditions, 7.0 is really sweet...gets to a plane and has power to muscle some turns, but is small in weight and doesn't feel heavy. Mid-teens and I'd go to 5.8-6.3. This is a bit bigger than many on this forum would advise, but I'm not as skilled as JH, et. al, so I need a bit more power help me catch the wave.
My 8.0 has been consigned back to my friend's place down south, where I'll have it with my Aero 117 (a magic combo as I've noted elsewhere). I find the 8.0 will work on the K11'5", you certainly can do it and in flat water it may be the call to plane in freeride mode, but for me the 7.0 UL is the big rig for the K 11'5".
Glad you like your board.
Thanks Geoff. Yes, moderate to light wind surf sailing is my favorite but light wind is most frequent. Also, I think I am heavier (85 kg) than you from something you posted before--still feel same way about 7.0 or would you reconsider 8.0 ?...
Good question. Not sure I have a good answer.
If you are a good surfer and/or have wave height 1.5-2 feet or greater, I'd probably try the 7.0. That's because I think you'll find the K11'5" catches such waves without needing a lot of help. Ease of catching the wave is much of why longboards are are worth having!
The board is very stable in whitewater and climbs over the shore break nicely, so you don't actually need much power there - 7.0 would be enough in any wind. Most of the time, I just go with my 6.3 and it's plenty except for the lightest mush / winds (as below).
If you're not that great at catching waves, and/or have dinky mushy waves in light onshore winds (my situation most days), an 8.0 UL will help you catch more rides but will be a little in the way once on the wave. But those kind of rides don't offer too much in maneuvers anyway, the main thing is some added power to catch as many waves as you can. Key thing there is that you're just trying to have some gentle wave rides to commune with the sea and pacify your life. Really low-key stuff.
Also, for me, in the mush with light onshore winds, I find the easiest way for me to catch a ride is to get front-to-back facing the waves/wind so I can ride along studying what's coming. This also helps keep from drifting in to shore. I ride nearly luffing (just enough power to hold up the rig) until I see something I like, wherein I bear off / sheet-in and then as I catch the wave do a sail/body 180 into clew-first front-to-front riding the wave normally. For reasons I don't fully "get", clew-first on a wave face seems to give the most useful startup power. Even an 8.0 SF is a bit clunky for this maneuver (a little too slow on the flip and the wave tends to get ahead of the board). The 7.0 is quite a bit better for this (and 6.3 even better). Once I catch the wave, the sail is less relevant and smaller is better for maneuvering purposes. For my situation, this is where the sail size is a compromise in light wind & mush.
I don't know how the good guys do it (and I'm the only one I know who does this kind of sailing so I've had to teach myself), but to me that moment of catching a mushy wave in wind <10 kts is the only time I really want more power. That's when others advocate going to an SUP, and I go ride a bike or to the golf course! If I had to have only 1 sail for this board, it would be the 6.3 (for you, probably the 6.7). That would leave me catching a few less waves, but on such days it ends up being more about that peaceful communing with the lake thing, anyway.
I have ridden the K11'5" in flat water / lake mode, and that's where an 8.0 SF would help (especially if you're 10kg bigger than me). Not my kit of choice for that scenario, but for someone who needs a one-board light-moderate wind and wave solution....hey, it works.
Well I found a starboard extremist 9'8". I sailed it today for the first time in really fun conditions. It's a new sport all together compared to my 12'6". I can turn it! I am really happy with it. I won't be looking for another board for a while, but when I do, I think I will try the sea lion.
Awesome eabmoto. I had an extremist for a while, it surfs a wave really well. All my shortboard surfing teenagers were fighting for time on it when I had it--so I finally made my point with them that SUPs can rip. Only reason I sold it was as a trade in on a board that I really wanted to try(JP australia 10'8). We have SO much chop here, and I was always able to maneuver the whopper as well as the extremist, so I had to make a choice--and I stuck with the whopper. The extremist is a great board. For some really cool pictures of it wavesailing with a Superfreak, check out wardogs posts from California--he called it the best bang for your buck water sport toy on the planet. Do you use a bigger than stock fin when windsurfing it?
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