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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Thanks for the continuing reports Geoff   smile

As a fellow Great Laker I know exactly those conditions, and I have the 11'5" at the top of my wish list (along with some newer Freaks).  It's 100 miles to Lake Michigan for me, and it really ruins your day when you go all that way and get sub-standard weather.

I think if I added an 11'5" to my existing Lake Michigan set (Evo 92 and an old F2 80 litre wave, plus the Freaks of course!)  I would have more fun more often  cool

Drew

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I'm sure you would, Drew. Doesn't sound like your other boards lend themselves to light to 7.0 winds. This would fill your bill. Have to sympathize, though, as the Carves (Konas) are really pricey.

If you find a used Kona 11'5 single fin in decent condition, I'd get it. John Ingebritsen was worried that I would "ruin" my Kona with the side-biters, but I wasn't worried. After 20 years, I'm pretty good with repairing fiberglass.... roll

But Tooold is way better than me on the paint jobs!

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Nico wrote:

And did you ever feel the necessity to move the fin in the rear us-box? Imho the us-box makes sense in a dedicated small waveboard for changing its wave attitudes depending on conditions, but in a large board it's better change the fin than slightly move it a few cm.
Imho

Yeah, for windsurfing i place the fin all to the front, for SUP in the middle.
My feeling is, that the front position helps to get the board planing because the curvy rockerline needs the lever of the fin more forward.
The rockerline has no flat section > 10cm from the middle to the tail of the board. In contrast my former Tabou Windstyler had about 1m of flat section in the tail with a little negative rocker in the tail and the board always felt sticky when really powered up and didn't want to go faster, whereas the Wassup once planing feels loose when powered up riding on its tail rocker.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Ok, thanks for explanation. So some advanteges are found in the us box for (Was)sup planing mode, even if I don't know if in RRD this was made on purpose, as it seems that they didin't think it as a planing board, as far as I know.
On the opposite with a Powerbox you'd loose the forward adjustement, but you could use a 50 cm fin with a 9,0 sail and get the best from the board in lightwind, so if you've noticed a step up from the sup fin to a big and wide one, next to the box limit, imagine how imho it will perform with a dedicated slalom fin in flat-water. Ok sorry, this has to be told to mr. Ricci...
Nice to hear so good planing attitudes of the Wassup, I'm gonna sent the link to this thread to my friend who has and enjoys a Wassup too. And pheraphs to mr. Ricci, two years ago I was thinking at a Wassup but their answer stopped me...

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I shot an email off to exocet and got a reply from Steve Gottlieb. He says the new WindSup will sail very much like the Kona one with the same wind range. Not so good in the waves but excellent freeride potential and much more stability for flat water/small wave SUP. Once again I want a planing longboard that can Sup not so much a Sup that can sail. I do like the powerbox as well for the larger sails. Any more reviews on the 8.5m Speed freak???


Hi Rob

It should have similar sailing range to the Kona one. As it is a simalr board with a smaller step in the tail and more width. It does have footstrap inserts but does not come with straps. It should be the perfect board for half SUP and half windsurf.

Steve Gottlieb

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Er, uh, one reason I like adjustability in center and side-bite fins is the use / need for weed fins.

For a wave board, even for soft mushy waves, I think adjustability is worth it. The physics of surf sailing is still somewhat shrouded in mystery, and if so, having a single fixed position on fins is not the best plan of attack. There needs to be room to maneuver. Even if you end up always using the same settings, the ability to improvise is important.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I'm not sure if I completely follow you Geoff.
The Windsup is the closest thing that I have found to what I am searching for. I do want to be able to SUP this board but I still have my SB 12'6" SUP with a US box, side fins and removable center fin.
This board is to replace my Kona One (just sold it). I just really wanted a little more stability for my big frame in a secondary SUP board. Waves are something that I sail or SUP very rarely where I live. (west coast of B.C.)

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I don't see much disagreement between us. I'm only saying that versatility can end up being helpful....you don't seem far form that.
Clarify where I'm missing the point,

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

No disagreement here I just wasn't totally following you.

I assumed you were looking more at the wave factor or surf sailing, which is something that I wasn't really looking for in this board. I do understand versatility as I do have a short board as well. I have actually tried the 11'5" and I do find it quite small for my size unless the wind is really up.

Sounds like were not really that far apart at all...................

Last edited by iamvwman (2011-09-15 04:54:41)

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Waves and surf sailing is where the K 11'5 shines. For my 75 kg, I find it perfectly sized in fresh water (haven't ridden it in salt water). So I suspect a bigger sailor would find marginally small (especially in fresh water or for sailors >90-95 kg in salt water). Someone <65 kg could probably use it as an SUP, but it's not an SUP.

BTW - one can ride it when the wind in the low 20's, since it is a longboard and thus has excess stability. But it's really not nearly as much fun as a shortboard once the wind is up. So from vwman's specs, it's not a good board for his purposes, I agree.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Update...

Looking like good opportunities for late fall sailing this weekend...but on Sunday I had the K 11'5 out for the first time since I completed the tri-fin conversion. I had it at Seneca Lake (one of the Finger Lakes in NY State) hoping for swells on a S wind, but to my dismay the S wind died shortly after I arrived and I didn't get swells to ride.

But what happened was the wind shifted 45º, then 120º and even 190º to go NNE. Gusts came in in the upper teens / low 20's, and I went out on the K 11'5 tri-fin with a 6.3 SF. To my pleasant surprise, the K 11'5 tri-fin rocks in flat water. I was happy to look at the wake and see no evidence of the side-biters spinning out / cavitating, and it does long drawn out jibes like it's on rails. Soft rails meant that it blasted upwind over chop with a pretty smooth ride, and I when I figured it out I was a bit amazed at how well she goes upwind without any centerboard. I found that if I just got amidships and in the stance I'd be on a race longboard with beating straps, the K 11'5 beats upwind like mad. Not quite as close to the wind as with a centerboard, but the difference was wicked quick planing rather than centerboard down / heeling and "plowing" upwind.

I never thought of the K 11'5 as a flat-water longboard before, but it works great in that mode. As a result, I'm more than ever a fan of planing, soft-rail, longboards that work in waves and flat water. This kind of ride should be core in any windsurfer who lives in a light-wind spot.

It even had me thinking that I could simplify my quiver and sell the Futura 133.......uhhh, I quickly came back to reality....I still like SPEED!

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I have to put my vote in for the Amundson 11'3 SUP which I think windsurfs really well. It definitely planes-longboard style- as long as you replace the stock fin with a longer one. I use a 29 cm/11.5 inch all terrain fin. What do you guys think of  these 11'2 or 11'3 SUPs that windsurf compared to the kona(now Exocet) 11'5?---along with Amundson, Thommen makes one as does Starboard. I saw a Sean Ordonez 2011 SUP that was around 11'2, but I couldn't see mast foot screw in photo. These boards definitely SUP better than the K 11'5, but I was wondering if any of you had compared their windsurfing ability, in waves and in flat water.....

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I have no experience with them, so I can't comment. Recently, my hunch has been that 10'6 to 11'6 is about right for funboarding in surf/swells. As I think back to old funboards I used (e.g., Malibu), this was a sweet spot for all-around riding. The outlines seem to be coming back a bit too, if a bit wider. All of this is probably not too surprising, as I don't think waves have changed much since then...

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

todd wrote:

I have to put my vote in for the Amundson 11'3 SUP which I think windsurfs really well. It definitely planes-longboard style- as long as you replace the stock fin with a longer one. I use a 29 cm/11.5 inch all terrain fin. What do you guys think of  these 11'2 or 11'3 SUPs that windsurf compared to the kona(now Exocet) 11'5?---along with Amundson, Thommen makes one as does Starboard. I saw a Sean Ordonez 2011 SUP that was around 11'2, but I couldn't see mast foot screw in photo. These boards definitely SUP better than the K 11'5, but I was wondering if any of you had compared their windsurfing ability, in waves and in flat water.....

I have sailed the 11'5 & 10'5 Konas here in the Gorge - just river swells & the Amundson 11'3. They are really night & day. The Amundson paddles much better of course & has that longboard glide with a sail. It actually goes upwind really well on the rail & turns nicely on the swells. It has a very lively subplaning feel & is really fun to ride. The Kona's are true windsurfing boards though. While not having quite as much of that longboard glide, the performance on a plane is in another league. It really feels like a fast freeride while on a plane & the full planing maneuverability is nothing short of shocking - even on Gorge swells.

I would say if your priority is windsurfing & you want the ability to plane at high speed & sail in the straps then the Kona is the way to go. If you want to SUP & you want a more longboard glidey feel for mostly subplaning sailing & gliding about in the surf, then the Amudson is a great board. One caveat is that I have seen a few Amundson mast plugs rip out - so they are not made for serious powered sailing.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Thank you for the responses Geoff and Caleb. Caleb, your direct comparison is exactly what I've been looking for. I have had my Amundson for a while and it's showing some wear, so I'm starting to look around. I had the mast screw plug rip-out experience that you described while waiting to launch in heavy shore pound during full blown north easter. The repair shaper put some extra reinforcements there and he was saying it looked like the original glass-in was "dry". Not sure what he meant but he was shocked by this fact, saying it was poorly finished.  After he repaired it, he wanted to  buy it from me!! It rides exactly as you describe and I love it but I have been trying to advance in wave sailing so couldn't help but wonder about the K 11'5. We just recently ordered the Thommen eXp 165 so both my wife and I could use it but I will need to replace that 11 plus footer at some point. Just wish that K 11'5 could SUP well.  Interestingly, Thommen makes a 11'2 SUP that windsurfs and has footstraps (unlike the Amundson). I'm sure you would probably notice same difference from the K 11'5. I'm gonna have to try this K 11'5, guess it's made by Exocet now. Thank you again...

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

"Dry" means that there was not enough epoxy to fully fill the interstices (spaces between fibers) of the fiberglas / carbon cloth. In effect, this means there is inadequate bonding between the fibers, because there is no epoxy between some of the fibers - nothing to bond them together. It is sloppy build, skimping on epoxy by not fully "wetting" the cloth (i.e., saturating it with epoxy before slapping it together in the mold). There are other lay-up flaws that I won't elaborate on here, but that is the meaning of "dry".

I'll agree with Caleb that the K 11'5 is a windsurfing board. It'll show you some glide in waves with light wind, fun for that, but when the wind picks up it'll go. Longboard style of "go" - kind of bounding over waves and swell - but it'll go, planing into and out of jibes. Of course in flat water it likes broad drawn out affairs (long outline, overhanging duck tail). In waves / swells, it'll slash and carve pretty neatly - not like an 85L FSW, but better than you'd think. Real fun.

I've sailed SUP's that I thought were going to break in half once I got them planing, feeling all the board flex. You can feel the K 11'5 flex, but it's a solid board.

I have little doubt that a good surfer / SUP'er could show us a thing or two on the K 11'5. If Robby could loop an Equipe, Kelly Slater could barrel roll a K 11'5, I've no doubt. But I agree with Caleb, if you're not quite that good, and SUP is your main mode, I probably would test ride the K 11'5 but it's probably not your thing. If you want to surf sail (gliding), plane in the surf, and maybe do a little paddling on complete no-wind days...and do all of that with just one board, the K 11'5 would be a compelling choice.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Thanks Geoff , I was wondering what the repair shaper meant. You described it well.

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