Alex,

I have the Mistral Pacifico, the Kona 11'5 and the Starboard 9'8.

Whilst I haven't had a chance to get them in the surf I think Geoff has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

However if you want to have a board in that range that would plane with decent speed, be fun in freeride mode and is good to gybe then the Kona would be the pick of them. The Kona is SUPable but this is not its forte.

The Pacifico is good allrounder for SUP and sail but would be very basic in the surf. The Pacifico will also take a 9m Superfreak for those lighter summer winds.

The Starboard 9'8 is primarily suited to surf SUP (so not really a planing hull). I am yet to have a satisfying flatwater sail with it (no surprise as this is not its design brief) and have tried four different fin arrangements but it just doesn't seem to work for me.

So in answer to your specific question you do lose a lot IMO, from a flatwater sailing perspective, between the Kona and the 9'8.

By way of comparison, sailing in bumpy shallow bay conditions ie confused chop, the Pacifico achieves about 26.5 knots top speed and the Kona 28knots, in flatwater you would crack 30knots on the Kona - not earth shattering but decent for an allrounder. The Kona feels much more more nimble and responsive.

Happy sailing,

Mike

Hey Alex..       I have the Bic Jungle and  am land locked like you  ,    but closer to the coast which is  2 1/2 hrs away ....    I  really like the Bic Jungle    ..

This has been an interesting discussion  ,  and I agree that  there are two ways to look at  SUP/Sailing ...   one is to design   boards more like Windsurfers with   a planing   oriented flatter tail  ,   and the successful  Kona  step tail design , the other is  to take a  real Standup Paddleboard with a  surf rocker and add a mast step .. the Jungle  is  , like you say  ,  this kind of design ..  It paddles  great  , is very light  ,    has a removable   rather than retractable daggerboard   which saves on weight   when you want to use it as  Standup board ...   I find that it  goes upwind fine in moderate wind without the  daggerboard just by railing the board ... while it does not plane like   a  more dedicated planing windsurf design  , the planing when powered up or overpowered is very controllable  without the need for foot straps  .  I sail it powered up  in choppy big river conditions and  use a harness  ,    the board seems to   plane slower  in the same condition than a dedicated windsurf board with the Jungle having the  tail more "in the water "  ( I use the  stock surf fin ) .  This  is a different feel to the plane but still quite  enjoyable ..  Rather than rocketing along at mach speed on a planing board with a bigger  fin  and  with most of the board lifting out of the water , my tail is more in the water as the nose lifts and front half of the board lifts out ...    this allows the board to  be quite controllable in  higher winds  even in choppy water  without straps ... 

I like this  older vid  where a   guy   put a mast step on  a  standard 11-4  paddleboard    .this is the kind of  planing  and sailing    that   occurs with  surfboard type  SUP's with  sails  , differrent and slower than  dedicated windsurf boards but   very fun , none the less.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlCrAF9kt8

Here is a nice thread from I windsurf forum that compares the  Bic Jungle a bit to the Step tails  and some point , counterpoint  discussion about   surfboard designed  SUP sailboards vs  windsurfer planing designs ..

http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtop … 4feba04eb6

Last edited by jjue (2009-07-28 04:45:06)

Alex-  I have the Pacifico, and have sailed it extensively in both flat water and wave conditions, with sails from 5.5 to 9.0.  I have also surfed it.  It has very good glide when it is paddled, it tracks well, and it's a great size.  Its weak point is surfing - boxy rails and little rocker mean it holds a line.  It can be surfed, but you're not going to be turning it a lot.  The boxy rails and limited rocker are it's strength with a sail, and it turns fine on a wave when you have the sail to help.  With a good fin (I use Maui Fin Co. Freewave 36cm) it goes upwind well, and it is surprisingly fast on a plane.  I have taken the straps off - what a joy to sail without them.  the deck is totally without clutter - it makes it very difficult for me to go back to my 90's Mistral Equipe (on which I am always trying to find the right places for my feet.  As an all-round, I think it's a big success.  The BIC Jungle looks good too, but I don't like the removable daggerboard (I want a real daggerboard or no dagger at all).  Of the Konas, I have only sailed the Kona surf,  which is a nice board, but it's wind range is higher on the scale than desirable for my local conditions (where 12 knots is a windy day, maybe once a week), and just doesn't have that beautiful spread of deck that the Pacifico has.

Geoff-  Personally, I'm not yet ready to move on from big sails.  My big sail is 12m.  Yes, it is a beast, but it makes me better, no doubt, and I get a great workout (though once sailing it's amazingly stable).  But trying to get it launched past shore break with a longboard isn't easy, and rigging in the sand with a sail like that (5 cams) is brutal.  So I'd prefer the Psychofreak, you are right (another bit of squeaking from the wheel - got that Jeffrey?).

Last summer, watched a fellow windsurfer who had admired my rig bring his brand new Kona 11.5 and MauiSails 11m rig with Fiberspar 100% carbon mast and boom down to the beach.  His launch was an ill-timed failure, at the cost of the mast, sail, and boom.  Ouch.  I wouldn't expect a Psychofreak to preform like a race sail, but I would expect it to be easier to use in every other respect, and hopefully to have a similar sensation of power in a near-zephyr.

The 8.0 Freak is pretty great, though (that's the sail I use 90% of the time with the Pacifico).

Hi,
here's the feedback for you guys, what's finally become my big stick.
It's a Tabou Windstyler Small, 295 x 70, 9'7 x 27'7, 170 Liters, 13,5 kg (weighed dry and naked). Sold in my Slalom XL for it.

Flatwater: checked.
I had it out on the lake with a 7.0 and 9.0, fin 36 / 46. Worked fine, negative: dagger fontaine, i put a pool noodle in. The goods: thight turns, planing ok, speed good (in the most rear strap position!), compared to the slalom guys it looses in planing and speed, no suprise here, but a new impression (being a (fast) former light wind slalom guy), just relax :-). New technique: gain height slogging, when the gust's there head hard downwind for planing. Upwind slogging is much easier than with an normal windsurfer (without dagger!). This technique helps alot gaining planing time on the gusty lake.

Wavesailing: check in progress
Just one day with 5,3 and 5 knots, waves up to 2m, sideshore. Great fun, slogging out against the breaking waves no problem (size matters), stalling behind the line up, waiting for the right wave, 2 pumps and there you go, i just hadn't the balls for going fast frontside in the steep sections (next exercise). Negative: a little stiff in the turns, reason to be explored (rails and rocker, foot position, balls ....)

SUP: Flatwater checked, waves in progress
On Flatwater o.k. now, even in slight chop (but don't ask about my first day, disillusioning)
Waves (just one day already), going out ok, but i wasn't able to catch a wave.

I don't regret the buy, seems like a real multi pupose tool.

Alex

Last edited by AlexF (2010-01-15 06:04:05)

Hey guys going to piggy back this one.

I was a bit sceptical of what I'd get out of a SUP but after an average surf on my minimal on Sunday I had a good 2 hours on a mates Starboard 9'8''. I got on really well on the small surf and loved it. I though being 90+kg it would be difficult and it wasn't!! Got loads of waves.

Now as an SUP this size works for me but how does it fair with a sail? Does the extra weight make it more unstable? My friends hasn't got the mast track so I can't try it but, like on sunday I'd imagine with a light cross on it would go well.

I don't really want to go much bigger as I don't want to loose the manouverablity in the surf.

Any views?