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Anyone using quad fins in their SUP or SUP/sail-surfer?
Good idea, bad idea....what's the thought?
GEM
Hi Geoff,
I used to own a 10.2 SUP shaped by Ding King Mark. Quads was the setup it came with. I disliked it so much that I had to pay 120 bucks more to have a central fin box installed (could have done it myself, but it would have looked like shit...). The board was much better with a 1+2 setup.
The main problems with the quads were:
1) slow speed (even when just SUP)
2) not enough drive when sailing
Overall, that was not a brilliant board (just finally sold it for very cheap). And that's my only limited experience with quads.
Some people love them...
Hi Cammar
Thanks for your reply, sounds uncertain. One thing I wonder about is the use of asymmetrical foils and large cant angles. Seems slow to me, though if it holds on a wave I suppose there is merit to that.
What is your opinion (or others) of a tri-foil?
Certainly the Witchcraft boards have some attention in wave boards, but how about SUP's?
Reminder: my SUP sail stuff is on a Great Lake, wind driven swells (aka mush), use of the word "surf" requires very liberal interpretation. My board surfs OK, my main goal is fairly smooth quick top and bottom turns that don't require so much "pivot" and subsequent falling off the wave.
GEM
What do you mean tri-foil?
If you mean three fins, I don't even get on an SUP if it doesn't have the two side fins... just better, in any condition, both SUP and sailing.
Now, if you want to know about the difference between 1+2 and thrusters instead, I would recommend a google search. Thrusters are looser, but when sailing a longer central fin allows better upwind angle, IMO.
Tri-fin / tri-foil, to me they're synonymous.
I looked up 2+1 as best I could, but it was more difficult than it might seem because search engines use Boolean logic and 2+1 is interpreted as 2 and 1, so every citation with a 2 and a 1 got involved!! Even quotation marks didn't solve it. So I couldn't learn as much as I wanted to.
Do your tri-fins us asymmetrical or symmetrical fins, and do you think one is more suited than another for SUP surf-sailing? (Everything I can find is with asymmetrical fins)
GEM
A 2+1 is the combination of a central fin and two smaller side fins. I like to call it 1+2, because it makes more sense to me. It's one central fin plus two EVENTUAL small side fins.
A thruster, instead, is made by three fins of the same dimension.
Most 2+1 I've seen have side fins that are asymmetrical. Flat on the inside and foiled on the outside.
Here's an interest thread on a kite forum:
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? … mp;start=0
Most of them use the FSC system as side fins. That means that you can relatively easily buy symmetrical fins and try them out. Let us know if you do.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I had figured out.
Thoughts on my situation...
Not sure that Great Lake mush-sailing is comparable to Maui. Lake Ontario waves are surely "slower" than Maui waves, so I wonder if a "slow" fin configuration might not be better in the schog-sail out, surf-back mode. I'm pretty comfortable with converting my Pacifico Wave SUP to a tri-fin. er, uh, at 1+2...
Have looked at zillions of pages of fins, lots of hype; my main concerns are durability and not waterlogging the board. All the base systems have lots of fins and advocates. In my professional career I've concluded that if you find lots of options to solve a problem, then you can generally assume that none of them are any damned good. There is a good reason for limited designs of the mousetrap: it's cheap, it works. The further you get from that, the more options the market will give you. You can take that advice to the bank.
For my SUP, I was going to try ProBox fins. Won't go into the rationale. I don't like their standard installation, and am figuring to use a Divinycell insert to prevent leakage waterlogging the board.
Now the scary part...what I REALLY want to do is convert my JP 108 Freestyle to a tri-fin. It's a great board for light wind freestyle, but has the upwind characteristics of flotsam. Unless you put on a BIG honking fin. Now, being of the old f*rt class, I'm really not interested in high kinetic energy moves of nu-skool freestyle, because I don't want to submit MY X-rays to this forum. There's been enough of that lately without my contribution!! But old school carving planing stuff (hoss tacks, donkey jibes, monkey jibes, reverse monkeys, the occasional willy-skipper), that I would like to do. But those moves require getting upwind in the absence of being 1.0-1.5 m overpowered. Unfortunately, the JP 108 goes upwind like a dog. Options: new board, or more fin. But this is a COMPLETELY unexplored area, near as I can find. So I'd like to do it, but I also don't want to learn the hard way that my choices didn't work!
Do I understand right that you want to add side fins to both your Pacifico and your JP and you are wondering which fin system is best?
No idea of which fin system is best.
For sure both boards will sail upwind better and be slower (as long as you don't put a smaller central fin).
What you're trying to predict, goes way beyond my knowledge (looks like not many others have much to say either).
But I'm a guy who reshaped the bottom of a 100l freeride board to make it a super light wind wave board, so I say: go for it!
(the whole truth is that the 100l board was a garage sale freebie).
I would love to add side fins to that, but I've been too lazy/busy to do that. Maybe next winter. And I would take it to a proper board builder to do that.
Good luck!
Yup. And have decided...
I'm going to use ProBox for the Pacifico Wave (11'2" Mark Nelson design) because as I peruse the fins online I find a wider variety of shapes for side fins.
For the 108 I've decided to put in standard 8" boxes and a MFC twin fin + San Carlos Weed Wave (I also have a 21 cm fin I can try. I was thinking to put in ProBox fins, but think a standard box is a better choice.
On the 108 the remaining question I haven't resolved is toe-in. Close scrutiny of the Witchcraft tri-fin and Open Ocean tri-fins suggest to me that the side and center fin chord lines need to "straddle" the rear strap. So I'm comfortable on that question, but haven't got a good sense of how much toe-in to use.
Over the years I've gotten pretty handy with fiberglass; never did a fin box but the BoardLady's website has some nice shots of a Quattro that she converted from single to twin-fin. So I'm not very intimidated by the project. I don't need oodles of speed on this board, but I do want better upwind performance. I'll likely post a query to the Witchcraft owners on what the toe-in is for their boards...
GEM
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