• Dolf
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  • From: Victoria Canada/ Maui
  • Registered: 2006-02-05
  • Posts: 1,139

Topic: Size of Light Wind Gear

Hi GP,

We seem to have the same ongoing discussion scattered all over the forum so I thought that I should start a specific thread to consolidate and persue this fascinating (at least for me) discussion.

To demonstrate that I not only to understand you, but am nibbling at your concept of pushing smaller gear in lighter wind to "surf" the waves, I will tell you of my experience yesterday. The wind was a light 12 mph so I took my 9.0 set up and headed up to the wall for some nice chest high waves. The wind eased when I got there and I was only planing 50% of the time, but rather than head home I tried an aspect of your suggestion. I was able to get on some waves with my Aero even when I was not planing. Then when I was getting a few turns DTL it was easy to wish that I had a smaller rig that did not interfere with my "surfing". So I could imagine sailing your way. I also came to the conclusion that the minimum size board that I could do this with is my Aero. Any smaller and I just can not get it onto a wave without the help of sail power. This is probably an issue of skill as well as slow speed planing ability of a board, but that is where i am at. So I could imagine me trying the Aero with a smaller sail in light wind if the waves were a bit closer than the long slog up to the wall. I do know that I find the 7.0 set up an ideal set up for me in the waves and the 8.0 is way more upside than downside so those would not change.

Now the question. You are also an advocate for the longboards and were a factor in us geting in to it. It seems to me that on my Big Red and a smaller sail yesterday I could have glided effortlessly up to the wall and then surfed to my hearts content. That seems to me all upside with no downside except for a more mellow rather than adrenelin experience. Do you have a cutoff or preference for when you get out the longboard and when you slog in lightwind with a shortboard?

Dolf (83kg, 183cm), Joanna 24% less weight and shorter.
SOS Big Red; RealWind 270XL; Thommen custom 105 , MWX 92, 83, 74, custom 67 ; JP Rad Wave 64
UL Freaks: 9.0, 8.0, 7.0, 6.3, 5.8, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7, 3.2
For Sale: RealWind 270; Starboard E80, E70, E62

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  • From: maui
  • Registered: 2005-04-25
  • Posts: 1,298

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

Yep.
It's a mix of wind speed, wave size/steepness and... mood.
In general, with small waves and over 12-14 knots I may choose to slog on a floaty (75/80l) shortboard and 5.5 instead of gliding on a longboard.
With big waves, I need a couple of more knots.

In Hookipa, what makes the difference is also the shore break. If it's really big, there's no way I can launch a longboard... thank god!

Giampaolo (70kg, 175cm)
http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com/

cammar's Website

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  • Dolf
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  • From: Victoria Canada/ Maui
  • Registered: 2006-02-05
  • Posts: 1,139

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

GP,

That is interesting. We generally have approximately the same transition point from longboard to shortboard. So our difference is only at the light end of the short board spectrum which I think that i understand and respect.

It does raises a bunch of questions for me on the longboard, but I will need to some time to formulate those and perhaps better put them on the longboard forum.

Dolf (83kg, 183cm), Joanna 24% less weight and shorter.
SOS Big Red; RealWind 270XL; Thommen custom 105 , MWX 92, 83, 74, custom 67 ; JP Rad Wave 64
UL Freaks: 9.0, 8.0, 7.0, 6.3, 5.8, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7, 3.2
For Sale: RealWind 270; Starboard E80, E70, E62

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  • From: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Registered: 2007-02-12
  • Posts: 177

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

Dolf,

I have wondered sometimes...if you had "discovered" longboards earlier, whether you would have pushed the big sail freaks so much in order to get out in lighter and lighter winds. How often do you use your big red, and how big a sail do you use on it?

I would have though you would often have to decide between...say..aero / 9.0 or big red / 6.3 or 7.0...this from someone who has never been near a wave on anything :-)

2008 7.0 UL : 2009 8.0 SD : 2010 9.0 UL...ordered
Kona One Design : 1997 Starboard Sonic 305

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  • Dolf
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  • From: Victoria Canada/ Maui
  • Registered: 2006-02-05
  • Posts: 1,139

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

Hi Rod,

As GP indirectly said it is largely a matter of personal preference, but I can answer your questions as to what I do. Note that GP and others would give different answers.

if you had "discovered" longboards earlier, whether you would have pushed the big sail freaks so much in order to get out in lighter and lighter winds. .

Yes. I use the 9.0 in as little as 13 mph and I will take it in a heartbeat in those conditions over my longboard. Due to deteriorating shoulders I was considering retiring my 9.0 rig and making my 8.0 my largest sail (I only sail in the waves. There are always some sort of waves), but the UL gave an extended lease on the 9.0.

How often do you use your big red, and how big a sail do you use on it?.

Not too often, say about 6 times per 3 month trip here. I use only the 7.0, in as little as 9 mph wind. Joanna uses only the 5.8, but she also likes to paddle it in less than 9 mph wind. And paddling does attract friends who take turns. I have given paddling a try but now in less than 9.0 mph I go snorkling.

I would have though you would often have to decide between...say..aero / 9.0 or big red / 6.3 or 7.0....

No, for me it is easy:
13+ mph shortboards
9 - 13 mph longboard
< 9 mph Joanna SUP and me snorkling, which does not happen too often. There is usually some breeze some where in the spring and fall here so our TOW is over 90%.

I just enjoy the thrill of a DTL run with the Aero / 9.0 in glassy head high waves as the waves are typically superior in the lighter wind. As I get older and my limitations increase, Jeff keeps improving my gear to keep me out there. I think that I posted on another thread that I was out one day on my 9.0 set up having a blast and many people on shore refused to believe Joanna that it was not a 7.0 so they rigged and rushed out to slogg.

this from someone who has never been near a wave on anything.

We consider ourselves most fortunate that we retired all our gear except the Maui stock. But I think that I would have given similar answers if we were still stuck on dirty flat water sailing in Canada. At our cottage I got bored with the fastest, earliest planning formula gear and switched to Starboard Carves to try to pretend that I was in Hookipa. I think the largest half of my UL quiver sizes would have been a very significant asset to maintain that illusion.

Aloha,

Dolf (83kg, 183cm), Joanna 24% less weight and shorter.
SOS Big Red; RealWind 270XL; Thommen custom 105 , MWX 92, 83, 74, custom 67 ; JP Rad Wave 64
UL Freaks: 9.0, 8.0, 7.0, 6.3, 5.8, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7, 3.2
For Sale: RealWind 270; Starboard E80, E70, E62

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  • Registered: 2006-11-26
  • Posts: 641

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

Dolf wrote:

No, for me it is easy:
13+ mph shortboards
9 - 13 mph longboard
< 9 mph Joanna SUP and me snorkling, which does not happen too often.

Interesting thoughts, as always, to this longboard newbie. Of course, I'm not quite the same as you guys, as my longboard experience is wind-driven swells on a Great Lake. And I've only had one chance to ride it thus far...

That said, my judgment would be:

<5 mph - bicycling
5 - 8 mph - bicycling or light wind (old school) freestyle - my new tool of choice is the Pacifico Wave
Alternately, teaching beginners
8-14 mph - Futura 133 + 9.5 Speed Demon
12-17 mph - Futura 133 + 7.5 (currently using a Z1 but a Liquid is on the wish list)
Alternately, Skate 112 + 6.3 SF freestyling
>15 mph - Skate 112 + 6.3 freestyling
Alternately, Aero 117 + moderate wind blasting/jumping/whatever
>18 mph K89 and ?5.5 SF for B&J / swell sailing

To me, this seems a logical and natural progression, maximizing TOW. Why do you think that nobody else seems to want to do this (forget the snorkeling / bicycling and substitute any non-windsurfing behavior in light winds)? Hassle? Money? Differences in ability to assume the proper attitude (i.e., planing is way different than catching small waves on a longboard)?

9.0 UL tube batten conv., 8.0 SF tube batten conv., 7.0 UL
6.3 SF, 5.8 SF, 5.3 SF, 4.7 SF, 4.2 SF
Kona One, Futura 133, JP Freestyle 108
Mistral Pacifico Wave, Aero 117, JP FSW 101, Kombat 89

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  • Dolf
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  • From: Victoria Canada/ Maui
  • Registered: 2006-02-05
  • Posts: 1,139

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

We're very close on the Aero

Dolf (83kg, 183cm), Joanna 24% less weight and shorter.
SOS Big Red; RealWind 270XL; Thommen custom 105 , MWX 92, 83, 74, custom 67 ; JP Rad Wave 64
UL Freaks: 9.0, 8.0, 7.0, 6.3, 5.8, 5.3, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7, 3.2
For Sale: RealWind 270; Starboard E80, E70, E62

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  • Registered: 2006-11-26
  • Posts: 641

Re: Size of Light Wind Gear

I used to use the for freeriding Aero down to about 12-13, because I didn't have a good light wind board, but  since getting the Futura the Aero is back to being a pure wave/swell board. My original intent with the Aero was a mid-teens big lake board, a bit of a specialty item really, and the Futura definitely relegates it to that category. Now with an SUP, I feel I have a good sub-planing option as well!

Speaking of the SUP, I find it interesting that some want to use the straps and some don't. In light wind and tiny waves, I found myself wandering all over the board, and decided I couldn't see straps. No straps, not so much because of being in the way as not feeling the board could withstand the beating.

9.0 UL tube batten conv., 8.0 SF tube batten conv., 7.0 UL
6.3 SF, 5.8 SF, 5.3 SF, 4.7 SF, 4.2 SF
Kona One, Futura 133, JP Freestyle 108
Mistral Pacifico Wave, Aero 117, JP FSW 101, Kombat 89

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