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Topic: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I am looking for a crossover SUP that can actually plane. I have a 2008 (insert daggerboard)12'6" starboard cruiser and a Kona one. The cruiser is a great for SUP and lightwind windsurfing and the Kona has it's place as well but I am looking for a cross between the two. I think the original Mistral Pacifico 207L would have been perfect but they stopped making it 3 years ago. I have been looking at the new JP and Fanatic Fly 11'6".

Any other suggestions out there??????

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Hi,

Having just picked up my custom longboard after selling my SUP because I was frustrated that it wouldn't plane while a longboard can plane at such a low wind that gliding was of no interest to me.

During my research in this transition I learned from reliable and knowledgable sources that a SUP (planing or gliding) can be sailed and a longboard can be SUP'ed, but neither can do it well. They are two different animals and each need to be optimized for its specific application. A crossover could do both, but less well than an optimized board. Hence I switched from a SUP that had a mast track that I could stick a sail on, to a custom longboard that can be SUP'ed albeit poorly only for the wife as I would rather stand under a cold shower than SUP.

I hope that is of some use.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I have to agree with you Dolf. I enjoy SUPping with my son, because he has no interest in windsurfing. When ever I get out I would prefer a sail. For my size, I found the Kona a bit too unstable for SUP or light wind sailing. My Starboard is great at SUPing and non-planing windsurfing. I don't get in the waves much at all but I do enjoy the longboard over my shortboard for flatwater and messing around. Maybe I'm asking too much???

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Dolf wrote:

I would rather stand under a cold shower than SUP.

SUCS? wink

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

For planing surf-sailing longboards, I would look no further than the Kona 11'5 or 10'5. But I wouldn't recommend them for an SUP or open water longboarding (except kids and small adults <60 kg could probably use it in the SUP mode). I use a Kona 1 for the open lake riding / family board / progressing-intermediate instructional board.

The 11'5 is very rigid and stiff enough to withstand planing on chop. Good light wind Great Lake mushy wave riding with a 7.0 SF (knee high and smaller lake surf). I've ridden in out in the open chop, but IMO this is a true surfboard and the user is richly rewarded by staying on the inside. If you want to ride on the outside, stick with the Kona 1 or other high-performance longboard. The 11'5 is surprisingly easy to ride DEEP into the shorebreak (<30 cm of water, 1-2 board lengths of shore), tack it around and ride it back out.

I recently added thrusters to mine to make it 2+1, seeking slightly easier cutbacks, but haven't had the conditions to test it yet.

I also find that SUP'ing SUCS.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

The best way to put it would be to have a board that works like the Kona 1 with about 2" more width. 11-11'6"x 31"ish.

BTW, was a new acronym just created or am I really out of the loop?

Last edited by iamvwman (2011-09-02 06:38:06)

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Sailing is always my #1 choice, but when there's no wind (very common) a good hard paddle around the lake (~2 miles) is a great workout.  My board is an ancient BIC 250   tongue

Drew

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Stand Under a Cold Shower.

Btw, "sup" in Swedish means a shot of booze smile

I rather SUP than any of the above smile

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

11' x 31"....oooh, I think that would have to have quite a bit of vee and thin super-soft rails, or it would be rough once you got it going. If the wide point were somewhat forward, that would help. Unless you're only planning to ride it in <10 kts?

FYI - Measurements of Kona 11'5 (original model)

Length overall - 11’ 5-1/2”
Length of planing surface - 10’ 4”
Length of duck tail - 13-1/2”

Nose @ 1 foot off - 21-1/2”
Max width - 28”
Tail @ 1 foot off - 15”

Nose thickness @ 1 foot off - 3"
Max width thickness - 4"
Ducktail thickness (just aft of planing section) - 2"

Last edited by Geoff (2011-09-02 11:19:28)

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I have the original Pacifico, and have posted about it elsewhere on this forum.  Yes, it's a better windsurfer than other crossovers that I've tried (Whopper), and it has excellent glide (two weeks ago did 14 mile ocean paddle with three others, and the Pacifico had very noticeably better speed).  It's barely adequate in the surf, though - if you want to turn it, you have to be very far back in the board, and it will catch a rail very easily.

The only other board that I suspect is good both ways is the AHD Summerboard (same as Sea Lion XL).  But I have never tired one, never even seen one, so can only say it's a hunch.

And perhaps also the RRD Wassup boards?  Would love to try those, but won't ever see them either (in order to try a Whopper, had to get a friend to buy one).

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Dolf wrote:

Having just picked up my custom longboard after selling my SUP because I was frustrated that it wouldn't plane while a longboard can plane at such a low wind that gliding was of no interest to me.

Is this your custom Thommen you are reffering to as your custom longboard ?

Last edited by Surfingsen (2011-09-05 04:33:01)

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Surfingsen wrote:

Is this your custom Thommen you are reffering to as your custom longboard ?

Yes it is and after one day of sailing it I will no longer even call it a longboard. It is soooo loose that it would be useless as a SUP and marginal as a pure longboard. It reinforces my earlier statement that a hybrid of anythig is a compromise at everything.

Aloha,

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

This board sounds cool - and anyway in my book a 290 is not a longboard....
(will comment more in that specific tread)

And I agree that hybrids and SUP's with a sail will allways be a compromise - but many do not have the luxury of having specialists boards...

But where a SUP with a sail (WSUP) has it's rights is playing in smaller waves when there is lighter wind like this http://www.vimeo.com/15274362 - as SUPing in more than 8 m/s is a struggle and not much fun unless you do a downwinder

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Surfingsen wrote:

in my book a 290 is not a longboard....

Yes, given my new experience I now agree with you. Thankfully Peter understood that I did not want a longboard even though I was not able to articulate that when I ordered it.

Surfingsen wrote:

And I agree that hybrids and SUP's with a sail will allways be a compromise - but many do not have the luxury of having specialists boards...

Yes, I understand. I am just trying to share my experience so everyone has more data to make an informed choice for their wants and reality. I appreciate that is different for everyone. My preference would be a specialist board that at least does one thing well rather than a compromise board that does nothing well. But definitely everyone's own choice.

Surfingsen wrote:

But where a SUP with a sail (WSUP) has it's rights is playing in smaller waves when there is lighter wind like this http://www.vimeo.com/15274362 - as SUPing in more than 8 m/s is a struggle and not much fun unless you do a downwinder

This is where I strongly disagree, of course IMHO. This is where my new board will blow away any longboard, of course for what I want. But this opinion does not belong on this longboard thread so I will elaborate on that in my other thread.

Aloha,

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Windsurfing and SUP share many things in common, so it is possible to make boards that take advantage of those similarities.  The SUPer 12 of iamvwman is one board that does a number of things well, the Pacifico is another that does some different things well.  If you are not interested in the things these boards do well, you will think they are poor compromises.

Dolf, your custom Thommen looks great, but makes it's own compromises in order to do what you want it to do (just as every board, every sail, everything must balance different characteristics to achieve a desired outcome).  I love Surfingsen's video, wish I had been there in those conditions - not sure what blowing away that board in those conditions means.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Looks like I may have found the answer......?........?

http://www.exocet-original.com/wind-sup118.php#

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

I like the looks of the exocet Curve even better:

http://www.exocet-original.com/curve.php

Hopefully as good as the 11'5"   cool

Drew

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

RRD Wassup 10' is a quite good planer for a SUP. Sure not like a dedicated windsurfboard like Dolf's Thommen, but quite a good compromise for SUP and sailing, yeah, but still a compromise.
Important is to play with the fins, the stock ones are only good for SUP, for windsurfing they are to small.
For me this one board solution is perfect, i dont't want to carry 2 or 3 boards for SUP, lightwind wavesailing an flatwater sailing.
Alex

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Surfingsen wrote:

----
But where a SUP with a sail (WSUP) has it's rights is playing in smaller waves when there is lighter wind like this http://www.vimeo.com/15274362 - as SUPing in more than 8 m/s is a struggle and not much fun unless you do a downwinder

Nice board, seen their website, sounds like the sup section of AHD. The video shows a lot of fun even if in lightwind with small sail. My envy goes to the riding but especially to the place.
But I don't need this video to decide for 2012 summer for the fourth windsurf trip by car to Danmark in four years, it's already planned and dreamed; just can't wait for 11 months for the green fields and blue seas...

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Regarding the Wassup the name itself shows his attitude, as it comes from "windsurf as a sup". I've a friend living in south Sardinia island, a very windy island of Mediterranean sea, that has a many wave boards and has just bought a Wassup, and she's very satisfied with it.
The problem is that I well remember that when I contacted italian and international RRD headquarter about wassup I had a controversial answer, as they told me that wassup is not really intended to be a planning windsurf. They didn't relpy to my new question about why then is fitted with straps and therefore with 2 back straps, not the most waveriding-only setup.
So imho there is a problem, wassup and other convertible sup are not intended as fully planing boards, and the fact almost all are fitted with a us box, good for small fins but not for biggger ones like my beloved powerbox. I well remember to have read somewhere on a sup brand website a warning about convertible sups not to be used about planing and jumping, but I can't find it anymore.
Imho that's a big problem because a Wassup fitted with a powerbox and two side minituttle serious boxes could be really a windsurf longboard-waveboard and then also a sup. The name is windsurf as a sup not sup as a windsurf...

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Dolf wrote:
Surfingsen wrote:

in my book a 290 is not a longboard....

Yes, given my new experience I now agree with you. Thankfully Peter understood that I did not want a longboard even though I was not able to articulate that when I ordered it.

Well I guess I have to be more specific about my book smile
When it comes to windsurfing a 290 is now a days an "in between" - but go back 10-15 years it was almost the definition of a shortboard.....
In surf a 9'+ is a longboard and in SUP a 9'6 (290) is in the shorter board territory.
My new Naish 9'6 has more or less the same dimensions (290x74x135L) as your very nice looking T1 and I'm still pondering whether to put a track in it.....

Dolf wrote:
Surfingsen wrote:

And I agree that hybrids and SUP's with a sail will allways be a compromise - but many do not have the luxury of having specialists boards...

Yes, I understand. I am just trying to share my experience so everyone has more data to make an informed choice for their wants and reality. I appreciate that is different for everyone. My preference would be a specialist board that at least does one thing well rather than a compromise board that does nothing well. But definitely everyone's own choice.

Exactly...

Dolf wrote:
Surfingsen wrote:

But where a SUP with a sail (WSUP) has it's rights is playing in smaller waves when there is lighter wind like this http://www.vimeo.com/15274362 - as SUPing in more than 8 m/s is a struggle and not much fun unless you do a downwinder

This is where I strongly disagree, of course IMHO. This is where my new board will blow away any longboard, of course for what I want. But this opinion does not belong on this longboard thread so I will elaborate on that in my other thread.

Well the SUP's in the film is 9'3 - 9'6 (mine) and 10'3 and with SF 5.3's - and yes - you would have been able to plane with a 8.0 but thats where I don't see the fun with such a big sail....

But to get back to the original question - I agree with Dolf that you cannot have both....

Look with critical eyes on what it is that you want to do and the choose based on that.... roll

If you want to plane - get a Kona (or Exocet Curve as they are now called - same shapes - as the Kona brand now belongs to the Kona One) or a RRD Longrider or an old raceboard.

If you are more in to riding waves in less wind choose a SUP with a mast track to have the possibility to either SUP or windsurf.

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Nico wrote:
Surfingsen wrote:

----
But where a SUP with a sail (WSUP) has it's rights is playing in smaller waves when there is lighter wind like this http://www.vimeo.com/15274362 - as SUPing in more than 8 m/s is a struggle and not much fun unless you do a downwinder

Nice board, seen their website, sounds like the sup section of AHD. The video shows a lot of fun even if in lightwind with small sail. My envy goes to the riding but especially to the place.
But I don't need this video to decide for 2012 summer for the fourth windsurf trip by car to Danmark in four years, it's already planned and dreamed; just can't wait for 11 months for the green fields and blue seas...

The Nah Skwell's are a part of AHD - at least the same factory designers and shapers - and very nice boards - I sold mine as it was to allround for my taste and got something more wave specific

Let us know if you are coming to Denmark and we can have a session together - and that specific beach is more or less Hot Sails Central....  big_smile

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Nico wrote:

Imho that's a big problem because a Wassup fitted with a powerbox and two side minituttle serious boxes could be really a windsurf longboard-waveboard and then also a sup. The name is windsurf as a sup not sup as a windsurf...

The WASSUP does plane! But you need fins > 30 cm, i had my last session with a new, old 36 cm Slalomfin (15 vears old, 15 € cheap) with my 9.0 sail, which was quite a improvement in early planing and looseness to my 32 Whitewater Supernatural (fat and wide profile)
The small wavefins are only good for waveriding, the stock 23 + thrusters only plane when on a wave or really sail powered. At my recent holiday in portugal i left them in because of laziness after my morning SUP sessions for the afternoon lightwind sessions in the waves.
Interesting thing is the board doesn't need big fins even for large sails, the 36 never did spin out.
Box stability for sure might be an issue, but i hope if i stay sub 40 cm it will do no harm to the us box.
Alex

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

And did you ever feel the necessity to move the fin in the rear us-box? Imho the us-box makes sense in a dedicated small waveboard for changing its wave attitudes depending on conditions, but in a large board it's better change the fin than slightly move it a few cm.
Imho

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Re: Best SUP/Longboard that can plane????

Well, first report on my 2+1 Kona 11'5 in not-very-good conditions...

Yesterday I was on the SE shore of Lake Erie but the wind fizzled out before I arrived. Funny how that happens. Anyway, stuck too late in the day to go elsewhere, I rigged the 6.3 SF and the K 11'5. Wind was about 4 kts, waves about 15 cm. This situation is a major reason I got the K 11'5, because it happens that I take a long drive and end up with such conditions. The K 11'5 is a one-board solution for minimal conditions like this, and I also use it up to solid 6.3-7.0 conditions (when I would switch to a shortboard).

The fin configuration I tried is a Maui Fin Co Weed Wave San Carlos, 25 cm, with Hanalei Fin symmetrical 5" side bites (~12.5 cm). The toe-in on these fins is 1.5º, and the insert I have gives 8º of cant. In the past, I've used the Kona OEM fin as well as a True Ames Surfgrass (these are much larger, at the upper limit for a US Box). One thing I like about the US Box / Pro Box combo is the ability to move both the center fin and the side bites fore and aft. In planing conditions, I'm hopeful that this will help tweak maneuvering ability. If I had any "complaints" about the single-fin version, it was that the bigger fin sizes required real commitment to carve hard on cutbacks. Obviously, I didn't get to experiment much with that yesterday.

The waves outside were too weak to catch without some wind to help grab the wave. In some "gusts" I was able to get on, but most of the wave riding was deep inside, ~10 board lengths from shore. I can't say it seemed looser in this mush, but it did seem pretty easy to catch well-formed waves. On the short-coupled lake waves, there were times when I got the nose a little immersed, but she rode well and hasn't ever shown a tendency to go diving.

Exocet adverts this board for up to 9.0, and I've ridden it with my 8.0 SF and it's really not that good. Heavy feel, not at all like she is with a small sail in the gliding mode. IMO, better to put a 5.3 - 6.3 on it, and surf the inside. One thing I really like about this board is that, in contrast to other windsurfing longboards (here I mean ones with a centerboard and not SUPs with a mast track), the K 11'5 really stimulates you to stay in the shore break / surf. It's floaty, easy to tack even in the whitewash, lifts over the waves when you're underpowered going out, and will catch dinky little waves. It's not hard to stay dry on the K 11'5. Gives you something interesting to do when you get there and the wind dies.

Once planing in waves with 6.0-7.0 wind, the straps are in the right places and it's a decent ride. And it FEELS like a windsurfing shortboard because (putting in the fin boxes I found out) it's full sandwich construction. I don't think I would jump it, but it feels very solid when planing or pounding into a wave. I'll follow-up when I've had a chance to ride the 2+1 configuration in the planing mode.

So for folks who live in areas with small mushy onshore conditions, I find the 11'5 or 10'5 are a good choice for the range of minimal-wind to moderate conditions. The way I look at weather maps, in most areas of the world, that is the most common weather. So it seems like a no-brainer to have something that works in that wind range. The options are:

1) a SAIL board that you will just sail, and a shortboard,
2) an SUP (you probably won't sail), a transition board to sail as well as a shortboard.

I want to sail more than surf because I find part of the magic is in the sail, so I'm not interested in the SUP. I can see that surfers might want the SUP solution when there's no wind at all, but the surf is good and they want to ride.

Solution #2 is probably the most versatile, but #1 works well for those who need a smaller board quiver. The Kona's (Curves) work well in that spectrum.

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