1

Topic: Which is the better gliding longboard

The modern Serenity from Starboard is an obvious great glider, as is the Division II boards of the 70/80ies which are more or less impossile to find these days.

But of the easy-to-come-by boards lying around in sheds, summer houses, garage walls etc like the Dufour Wing, the Alto, Windsurfer, Windglider, Mistral Superlight etc, which one do you guys think offer the best speed when sub-planing?

/Niclas

PS. My 27kg Windsurfer is a better glider than my <13kg 12'2"x26 3/4 Starboard SUP / SIC Kunalu

Thumbs up Thumbs down

2

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Interesting, I'm on the lookout for something similar myself...

I sailed Windgliders back in the day but of the boards you've listed I'd say Dufour Wing and Mistral Superlight are the gliders, and definitely the Mistral if your heavier.

I'm watching for something a little racier, Mistral IMCO or Equipe on eBay...

Enjoy, Chris

Thumbs up Thumbs down

3

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

As I'm an even too proud owner of a Serenity I'm courious to know if there something that can go as fast as my long sailing gondola. Don't know in the past, as this kind of boards were out of market when I've started, and anyway more than 15 kg for me could be a problem.
Instead of it I've also seen some new sup-race style, that starting from the Serenity brother K-15, now are shaped long and narrow, and have high and narrow bow; and therefore some could be more easy to carry with car than my beloved but big serenity, I'm thinking at RRD Cruiser Convertible or others convertible shapes

Thumbs up Thumbs down

4

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

The Lechner and Davidsson boards of the late eighties should match the Serenity, but I haven't heard of anyone testing them one on one.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

5

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

is the serenity, or others, really that much better than a mid 90s equipe?
thats my only experience in subplaning gliding...but i think it seems pretty good.
and is still good when youre planing..

Thumbs up Thumbs down

6

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

I think you can try the Serenity and tell us the difference. I could try to have a run on one of these good ancient boards, but here funboard erased all the past, you can still finde something of the eighties but usually abandoned in wet cellars and without their dedicated pieces for mastfooot. Different in Germany, you still can see something on ebay.de, but not suitable for shipping.
Obviously the Serenity benefit of a lot of years of progress in materials, and is pheraphs the most gliding because is NOT made for planing, in fact over 10 knots I switch directly to my wideboard.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

7

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

My curiosity is increasing, as I often see some longboards being sold on ebay at cheap prices, and so I dream of carrying over the roof of my car a board with daggerboard instead of my widebody flapper, so I could have the possibility of gliding even in small lakes with few knots. But I don't want to loose much planing ability.
So, what about giving votes to the boards?
Assuming that for Serenity gliding is 10/10 and planing is 0/10 and in opposite a formula board is gliding 1/10 end planing (I mean easyness) 10/10, what about other boards? I mean actual but also from the past, but not so far and with not actual devices. Also sizes could help to undertand if it's too much a monster board from the past.

Starboard Serenity, Sportech, 460x61,5, about 14 kg: planing 0/10 - gliding 8/10 (edit)
Div. 2 boards (no specs - early 80's) : planing? - gliding 10/10

Last edited by Nico (2011-06-14 07:48:51)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

8

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

A top DIV 2 board from 82' or 83' will blow a serenity out of the water on all points of sail.
Serenity is "serene" but it is not fast. Really a poor design compared to the best DIV 2 boards.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

9

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Ouch!
I respect you point of view, and I can't compare my Serenity with a DIV 2 board since I've never tried one, in '82 I was unfortunately still far from beginning this sport. If I'll find one Div 2 I'll surely try it. Yes we should keep in mind that in 1982 materials were so far from actual, more heavy and flexible... According to your judgement anyway I lower the vote of Serenity from 10 to 8, and give top 10 to div 2 in gliding.
About fast or not, in my still little experience the Serenity is simply serene under 4-5 knots, but becomes really imho fast in the 5-10 knots range, and not so few people confirmed this, being astonished after trying it. Yes, I'm talking about the second version of Serenity, really the first up to 2008, really different, seemed also to me to have some problems (nose always up over the water), so I don't know what version you've tested. Reaching 10-12 knots of wind Serenity give the feeling to be at its upper limit, but who cares? I simply unlock my Stealths from it and attach to the Sting Ray and start planing. Yes on the upper limit the bow open the water and spray it in my ankles, so pheraphs something could done better for this situation, but it's always the time to switch to a planing board; i remember similar problem in some situations with my Wizzard, designed by Peter Thommen, and I've read something like this also about Witchcraft tests.
The fact is that in my experience since about 1996 I've never find anything so beautiful and gliding, neither in long and narow board of that time, I mean 320, 330 and 350 cm with daggerboard, so for us "late" windsurfers Serenity is absolutely new even if is declared not to be new from his own designers, they clearly say it's inspired by Div 2 boards.
About your last statement I'm not a shaper or engineer, but I'm a little bit surprised, but still.. serene on it. On the deck is written designed by Svein Rasmussen, Jim Drake, Per Andersson, Tiesda You. Especially the second one is not the ehm last name in windsurfing (literally the first).
And also the other guys are not so novice, that guy named Svein is involved in board design since a lot, and some ideas he had changed the history of windsurfing.
But I'd like to understand, what are the things in Serenity shape that could be changed or improved? I can't imagine an even faster lightwind board, so understanding where are the problems could be helpful.

Last edited by Nico (2011-06-14 12:15:23)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

10

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

The main issue is the lack of fin underwater. They have a high speed fin for low wind use. Does not make sense. This is the reason the board would not be competitive with the older boards in any kind of race.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

11

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

My english is not so good so I cannot perfectly understand what you mean.  If you talk about the stock Drake Race XL 70 cm fin like a wrong fin then.. I've never used it! In my usual spot I can only use super raked seaweed fin as it has super shallow water, mainly a Select Delta Antiweed XXL, only 27,5 cm deep, but made for 8-10 sqm sails; and sometime a common G10 40 cm dep (56 long); Not surely a great upwind performance, but perhaphs less drag and... running in 50 cm of water! Having just found another spot in the south lagoon with deeper waters, now I want to try the original setup now.
Ok I understand, Div 2 where made for racing with low winds in the most competitive era of windsurfing, Serenity is made for give an emotional ride to common windsurfers like me, it is a supelightwind "freeride" so I can agree, less techincal and performing and more immediate feeling.
But if only fin is the problem yes, also the main shaper, Tiesda You, had to admit that for a lot of people the big red drake supplied is excessive and give an even too much "violent" performance, and in fact the SB rfiders use another softer fin; but for sure nowaday there are no fin shapers that make fins and daggerboards for underplaning situations, compered to Div times, so not much to do...

Last edited by Nico (2011-06-15 10:27:15)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

12

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

I'm so fascinated by this thing about the longboarding renaissance that I'm gonna buy (cheap) a new 2009 Mistral Ventura 343 (255 l.) Surely gliding less than Serenity but also planing. And therefore I can store it in my wharehouse (350 cm!) outside Venice watertown and so carry it in my trips and have windsurf sessions even if wind is lower than 8-9 knots. Let's see (meanwhile: reached 20th windsurf day from 1st april).
About Div 2 I've read opinions about his great attitude in low wind, but also about the real problems in open sea and waves, and about the contruction that was not exactly waterproof and needed drainage at the end of the day. So I'm a lover of good old things (see where I live), but we cannot forget 30 years of progress...

Last edited by Nico (2011-06-26 11:40:33)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

13

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

I am a a longboard junkie, so understand your fascination.  I have many of the long Mistrals (Superlight, Equipe [2 versions], Maui, and Pacifico, with lots of experience with the old Malibu as well, similar to the Ventura), and also have a Fanatic Mega Cat (the carbon, large carbon dagger, and trippy graphics one) and can tell you unequivocally that the Superlight is the best sub-planing board.  It is not a good planing board - that's an understatement (it has a low terminal velocity).  Of the boards I have the Mega Cat is the best all-arounder, but I agree that a D2 board would likely be better still (definitely better sub-planing).  I have been unsuccessfully looking for one for 3 years, but you would no doubt have better luck in Europe.  The new AHD Tacktik looks like a kind of D2 hybrid - interesting board, but it will never appear around here (East Coast US).  Actually, I would love to see one of the wooden boat kit companies offer a D2 kit (or at least a laser-cut frame) - last year I saw photo of a D2 board from the early/mid 80's made of wood - beautiful, don't think it would be too difficult, and I can't think of a another way to get my hands on one.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

14

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Here I am, my first two days in Denmark offered my not so good conditions here in (wondeful) Kaegnaes island, SE of Jutland; and then immediate debut of the new Ventura. Especially today wind seemed to be better in the morning, but really there were not more than gusty 7 to 10 knots; so Ventura and 9,5.
What an amazing sensation to point upwind and really travel offshore from Keegnes sout point almost to the windmills on Als shore.
For sure Serenity is faster, but for the open sea the Ventura gives a lot of stability, and I think that with some more wind I could also plane. On the counterside it requires a good works with legs, for changing position, pushing the board and moving the centerboard; I suppose it would be easier with seat harness compared to the waist I've used today

Last edited by Nico (2011-07-09 10:54:25)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

15

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

<image>
not the best photo

Thumbs up Thumbs down

16

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

I just got myself this beautiful wood Serenity and tried it twice in non serene conditions and it seems very promising.
I noticed that the back of the board has two holes drilled into it as if for a handle? It does have a built in handle in the middle of the board.
Or maybe the holes are for pressure equalizing?
The original owner of this beauty somehow does not recall seeing the holes and does not know the purpose of this.
Any ideas?
Thanks
                 Alena

Thumbs up Thumbs down

17

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Hi from Nico. Serenity has from bow to stern: the common pressure valve, the us mast track, a cup with the handle screwed with two screws longitudinally, and then the cup with inside the two holes for screwing the daggerboard-fin in the deeptuttlebox. Nothing more, on the deck of mine. I remember that the first proto shown in some videos hasn't the cup for the fin screws, they were over the deck.
The versions after 2009 has a small us track in the tail for an added small directional fin.
Show us a photo please. Tried Serenity in strong winds?

Last edited by Nico (2012-04-23 11:00:23)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

18

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Hi Nico
The Serenity does have the pressure valve infront of the mast foot and it does have two holes to screw in the fin  inside the cup holder. The cup holder is a funny thing on a windsurfer don't you think.
Than there are 2 holes on the back, the first one on the "s" and the second one just behind the "g" of the "....... windsurfing" logo on the stern.The holes are about one inch deep and the screws meant for the fin do not fit these holes. And there is no sign of anything else. I would love to send you a picture but do not know how in anycase they are just 2 holes, believe me.
Is there  anybody in Starboard that may have an idea?
Should I plague the holes?
I just got the Serenity  and took it out on a lake with a 7.5 meter sail and the smaller fin. The wind fluctuated as usual between 0 and 10-15 knots and when it blew the board  healed like a sailboat and the bow lifted up which was fun. I think for the 7.5 meter sail it definitely needs the larger fin as it did not go upwind easily as it is known to do. Also it was my first day on it.
I got it for the low winds as I refuse to do SUP and I am scared of catching large waves due to the possibility of being squashed or hit by the board. Most of the Summer around Boston has very low winds. This way I plan to go to the beach and have something fun even if the wind is 5 knots, that is the plan anyway.
Thanks a lot
Alena

Thumbs up Thumbs down

19

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

If I remember correctly these two holes are for attaching a roller for easier transportation.
Get a *board catalog from the last couple of years (or download the pdf from starboard.com) and look for it in the accessories section smile

Thumbs up Thumbs down

20

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Upload the photo on a web album of your choice, copy the link of the photo and then paste it like this: [img]LINK OF THE PHOTO[/img]. You also have the img tab over the message box, so only to copy the link in between.
Anyway check if the bottom of the holes are sealed. I've looked around but I don't remember any insert for wheels like on some Start, and the Serenity already has the handle to be carried; but sometime they do slightly different versions under request. Anyway you could use thoes insert for fixing there a Go-pro camera and let us enjoy you  riding Serenity!
I've only made and attempt but camera was too low and forward, and my camera lens not enough wide,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyB-5eNRkJ4
Is it your the 2007-2008 version with nose slightly curved up and no added little tail fin or the slighly more racy 2009-2010 version with the addedd little tail fin?
Anyway Serenity imho is one of the most fascinating boards ever made (at least tried by me).
Some photo of last year first runs with it:
<image>

<image>

<image>

Last edited by Nico (2012-04-25 00:20:47)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

21

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Take a look at page 30
"Clipperwheel attachment inserts in the tail"
http://gallery.star-board.com/share_gal … og_Web.pdf

Thumbs up Thumbs down

22

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Thanks Surfingsen, here is the  answer.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

23

Re: Which is the better gliding longboard

Alena, I've seen your messages on the Starboard forum, so it's clear they are the inserts for clipperwheel, a good thing to carry the board easily. I also agree with Roger that is not needed a huge sail, I'm 90 kg and I currently use the old camless HSM Stealth 8,5 from '99 and sometime the Stealth 9,5 from 2003. Little more push from the 9,5 but less handling compared to 8,5.
If you take a video of you riding the Serenity please let us (me) watch it, results can be very nice if you do something like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVqpsr28 … dl3MJVa9Vg

Thumbs up Thumbs down