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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hey Jurg

I am just trying to clarify you last post.

Does the Nahskwell come with a mast insert?

I got the 80/20 20/80 thing.

Which one do you recommend for the under 70kg range?

cheers

roland

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Geoff ... just don't sail the 11'5" before you sail the Kona Surf & you may be happy with it. Especially don't sail the TT version! ...

Last edited by calebchinookRD (2010-02-15 07:02:09)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Ha! The more I've thought about it, and read reviews, considered the fresh water penalty (slight but detectable), I suspect the 11.5 is the pick of the litter for me right now. Your tease just adds to the mounting evidence...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

correct the Nah Skwell has a mast foot insert. The Sealion has a mast track.

http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19716  good real feedback from a Sealion user.

more sailing = Sealion , more paddle = Nah Skwell  if you buy either and you think you need the other we can swap it no big deal. We often have a guy or shop close by to exchange.

Aloha

Jurg

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Since we have had little wind the last 3 months, I have had a LOT of time SUP and sailing the sealion. It is a breed apart, but the one good wave you catch can make the balance battle worthwhile. Actually balance is only an issue in choppy water.
Speed is both this board's friend and enemy in Hawaiian surf. It goes so fast on a wave that it is tricky to turn hard on such a wide tail without slowing down first. I find NOT pushing it works well. I know Bruno's extra 10kg reduces this problem.
The last day I had it in double over head, but pretty mushy and it was crazy fun, it did not matter how flat the wave got, the board kept planning long like it had a motor. I think for California beach break this would be THE board to have too as it fits in steep waves, and if your not attempting round house cut backs, it can speed around any section.
For sailing, it likes smooth water for sure. You loose some foot grip friction from hanging onto the sail, so bumpy water and speed spell WIPE OUT. Again, turning at high speeds is tricky, but slow th board and it smooth and loose.
Just my 2 cents...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I don't understand why a board that sails well in a range of conditions wouldn't have footstrap plugs.  I sail without straps most of the time - and love it/prefer it - but on a longer board, and even then, when the wind picks up above 20mph, I want the straps.  Is this a cost issue, or an esthetics issue?  Whichever, it's an issue that keeps me from buying one (besides cost, and the fact that I have enough boards already, ugh - hoped the SeaLion might replace a few of them).

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Well, I can't speak for any makers, but I don't think they mix very well.

When surf-sailing (gliding mode), I really do run all over the deck, so footstraps and centerboards would be in the way. Windsurfing, on the other hand, is better with footstraps because for me windsurfing is not about gliding it's about planing. I guess the Sea Lion is a crossover between the two, a planing design but without the straps. It says you can get the board with inserts, and it's really not very hard to install a set of inserts if you really want them.

Step tails try to do both, but most everyone who's ridden them (mostly Kona 11.5 / 10.5) rides them in the planing mode (and for sure that's what the promo shots show). So I haven't been able to get good feedback on the surf-sailing mode and if the footstraps are in the way (surely they are).

I've wondered about taking the straps on and off, but I don't have enough confidence in the durability of the inserts to do that. If there were plastic inserts with brass threading to take a machine screw, I would have more confidence to try taking the straps on and off depending upon the conditions of the day.

Hey Caleb, there's a new part for you to make, inserts with a brass core designed for machine screws!

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I would second the motion that modern boards (SUP/windsurf) need a better strap insert.  I came in off the water several times last season to put the straps on my Pacifico, and know that eventually the inserts will wear out.  I would suggest a quarter turn key-pin, not a threaded solution, since the change-over would be much quicker, but threaded insert is easier to design and cheaper to make, so is more likely to come to market.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

"""I don't understand why a board that sails well in a range of conditions wouldn't have footstrap plugs.  I sail without straps most of the time - and love it/prefer it - but on a longer board, and even then, when the wind picks up above 20mph, I want the straps."""

The Sealion is made for 5 to 15 miles wind so no need for foot straps. 20 Miles is possible but pushing the envenlope.

"""Is this a cost issue, or an esthetics issue?  Whichever, it's an issue that keeps me from buying one (besides cost, and the fact that I have enough boards already, ugh - hoped the SeaLion might replace a few of them)."""""

In 5 to 15 miles wind you walk all over the board to surf so the foot straps are not needed and only in the way and clutter the deck. However we can add some at no coast if somebody wants...   

So far I have not seen a sailor really needing foot straps after sailing for a couple hours.

Jurg    wink

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Yes, no footstraps needed at 15, and yes, another board would be ideal above that - I am just always looking for the impossible one-board solution (that is not 11' long).  Sealion is the closest yet - by a long shot.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I like the key-pin idea. I think it would need to be hex-wrench or something, to minimize bulk on deck...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi all,

there is no one position footstraps that would work on the Sealion as the rider needs to move his feet all the time to optimize the glide and balance. A fish works flat on water! so it is easy to understand that the position on the board would change if the wave is big or small, powerfull or low... Strapless makes the Sealion working anytime! Footstraps would limit performances.

Here is a link to the last nice session. 6/7 knts wind.
http://vimeo.com/9578709

<image>

Last edited by Burns (2010-03-01 00:14:03)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Bruno, I fancy the concept a lot, however I never get any waves with a lot of waves. I want a board for my kids to learn on and for me to plane in low wind (strapless) with the 7.0 SF. I actually thought this could board could be used. Silly idea probably. So, any suggestions?

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

That would work! definitely!
We have some people like you using the sealion (and HSM) with their kids.
here is an other link
http://vimeo.com/5018529

If you want more stability, and a cool style bigger Sealion, we have just introduced the Sealion XL
<image>
It is the shape of our Summer Board with Sealion EVA;  same spirit, same concept, that shape turns, plans, surf, only in a cooler style than the Sealion.  I will edit some actions very soon...

Sealion is faster (I did 27 knts speed on flat water and still strapless!!)
<image>

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Cool! smile Thanks for the answer!

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi Bruno, cool flatwater shot, but SL is faster than ...?
I always thouhgt that i need footstraps for flatwater use, your pic tells a different story. Have you ever ridden the SL in choppy flatwater, too? How about controll in chop without straps there?
(I currently own an Tabou windstyler small, have you ever ridden that board for comparison?)

Alex

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Geoff wrote:

Well, I can't speak for any makers, but I don't think they mix very well.


Hey Caleb, there's a new part for you to make, inserts with a brass core designed for machine screws!

Actually we use to do that a long time ago! (SAE 8-32)..... problem is most of the common machine screws a fairly fine thread - (8-32 or M5) prone to user error/cross threading & sand does not tend to play well with them either. The special M6 PT screws that cobra uses are actually very good screws for forming & re-forming threads in plastic. Ideally I think if you had a coarse m5 machine screw & a slightly harder grade of brass or even Ti insert .......

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi Alex and all,

strapless: the pressure you give is more vertical than ever!
it is just more physical but it works. Abs and legs are working hard!!!

never forget that the Sealion is destinated to 0 -20mph...

Low planning with a 5.5 SF on choppy water is really fun!

on the last picture wind was 30knts+ off shore. I did 27 knts. Slalom boards were 35 knts...

But I had lot of fun! sensations were extreme!!!!

Last edited by Burns (2010-03-01 08:44:51)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

calebchinookRD wrote:
Geoff wrote:

Well, I can't speak for any makers, but I don't think they mix very well.

Hey Caleb, there's a new part for you to make, inserts with a brass core designed for machine screws!

Actually we use to do that a long time ago! (SAE 8-32)..... problem is most of the common machine screws a fairly fine thread - (8-32 or M5) prone to user error/cross threading & sand does not tend to play well with them either. The special M6 PT screws that cobra uses are actually very good screws for forming & re-forming threads in plastic. Ideally I think if you had a coarse m5 machine screw & a slightly harder grade of brass or even Ti insert .......

Must have been a LONG time! I can believe the issues you cite. Sand is the bane of windsurfing gear (except for my feet).

I have no problems with the current screws used in most brands, they work well except they are a lot of rotations and if one used them frequently the inserts would surely get chewed up rapidly.

I rather like the twist-lock / key-pin concept of nyocean's. It would be quick to use, and easier to clear of sand. But I'm sure it would add 4.09 grams to the board weight and thus be nixed...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Bic used to use a mini US-box for their footstraps on their Vivace line, so you could trim the staps, but the box had a tendancy to be torn out of the board, but that could be an option.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Try these, they're very good and beautfifully made but you do need to be extra careful not to cross thread them plus the screws are fairly short so first install through a new deck pad can be a struggle.

Scroll down the list on the link below for threaded brass footstraps inserts by Northwest Surf Products

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product … ilcom.html

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Burns wrote:

Hi Alex and all,

strapless: the pressure you give is more vertical than ever!
it is just more physical but it works. Abs and legs are working hard!!!

never forget that the Sealion is destinated to 0 -20mph...

Low planning with a 5.5 SF on choppy water is really fun!

on the last picture wind was 30knts+ off shore. I did 27 knts. Slalom boards were 35 knts...

But I had lot of fun! sensations were extreme!!!!

Ok, 30 knots is not the common windrange for these boards, i wouldn't expect that too.
Have you ever used the SL / SL XL with sails of 7m+ in flat / choppy water? It's important for me, since i find waves only in my holiday trips.

Regarding the shape of the SL:
Is it more flat in the bottom than a SUP ("SUPs don't plane")? Is it more like a kona bottom curve designed for planing? Or inbetween?

I wish all these lightwind tools could get a classification Wind aka "planable" / SUP aka "surfable" like 80/20, 50/50 or something like we have for our windsurfing tools: radical wave, allround Wave, freewave, freemove, freeride, slalom etc. to classify e. g.  a 90 Liter board.

Alex

Last edited by AlexF (2010-03-01 23:35:13)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Christo wrote:

Try these, they're very good and beautfifully made but you do need to be extra careful not to cross thread them plus the screws are fairly short so first install through a new deck pad can be a struggle.

Scroll down the list on the link below for threaded brass footstraps inserts by Northwest Surf Products

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product … ilcom.html

Cool! It looks like the sailboard inserts are less robust than the kiteboard ones (i.e., smaller machine screws)? I would go with the heavier insert...don't you think?

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Geoff wrote:

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product … ilcom.html

Cool! It looks like the sailboard inserts are less robust than the kiteboard ones (i.e., smaller machine screws)? I would go with the heavier insert...don't you think?

I think the screw diameter is the same but the windsurf specific inserts set deeper. I'm not certain though you'd have to check.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi Alex,

yes I have been using SF 7.0. That works!

All pictures you can see on AHD website Sealion page, is with that sail.

Today I do not use that size so much as the board plans really quickly!!!

;-)

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