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Topic: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hello:

I am in the market for an SUP that I can sail and am considering a sea lion.  I  have also considered a starboard drive or 9'8".

Sea lion costs heaps more but as it can plane (unsure of the others perhaps they can too) I am thinking seriously of getting one.  I have scoured the forums for info/reviews and must have read/watched most of it.  And have contacted jurg  about a demo but thought i might see if anyone has recent feelings about this board.

Other random info if you can be bothered to read on:

Kited for 9 years, went back to windsurfing (stoke) last year and am still splitting  time between the two.  Strong wind flat water I windsurf for sure.  However, last season in the waves i kited (much easier) but this season am looking to try and wave sail and thought perhaps an SUP might help me get a feel for it in lighter wind.

PS:  I put together a series of vidoes on youtube aimed at preventing injuries and increasing forearm, wrist and hand strength.  I am a Physiotherapist by day and i thought it might be good for windsurfers.  One warning though they are long clips.  You can find them here.

www.fitnessandinjury.com

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi,

did you have a look on the Sealion's blog?
http://leblogdusealion.blogspot.com/

It is in french, but would give you an idea concerning the Sealion's potential...
That concept is really different! Like the Superfreak...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Cheers  Burns

I did see that blog and the pics look great.

I have been trying to learn italian for 9 years with minimal success (mostly lack of effort on my part) so i won't be starting with french anytime soon.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

;-)))))

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Why learn french when there´s Google Translate or BabelFish? smile

http://translate.google.com/translate?j … &tl=en

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I think its all depends of the seastate and your weight.
In 2007 i started with SUPing a 12 ft board and since then i,m doing it a lot!, really love the sport.
Last year i wanted a smaller board and could borrow for 2 weeks a Sealion smile
Before I was pretty sure the Sealion would be my kind of thing, in the end i bought a 9.8 SUP with mastfoot option (Starboard Element)

I,m 88-90kilo and sailing/SUPing most of the time at the Northsea where its very choppy.
Lightwind wavesailing: good fun because its really quick up to plane BUT when its choppy or you have sail against hiphigh waves you will get bounched of while planing no matter what you try.
Also sailing back between the waves with less bounching i couldnt sail really well upwind.
So only in swell or rather flat water I could really benefit from the planing.
Slogging out and riding back is good fun, but a 9.8 SUP slogs better upwind and almost turns as easy.

SUPing was for ME (88-90kg) only posible in flat water. Again, my spot is really choppy and i just couldnt really balance the SL out well enough to paddle more then lets say 10 strokes before falling in again.
In that conditions I can padle with ease a 9.8ft SUP.
My girlfriend, 63kg paddled the SL and altough she has a lower level in SUPing as I do she got away with it much easier.

To catch a wave is for me with the SL pretty hard due the short length.
When I got a wave, its really good fun and it seems to glide forever like a XXL Fish surfboard.
But as i have no problems at all with my 9.8 SUP to catch pretty much anything i opted for the SUP.

That said, last september I was on Holiday in Crozon and saw Bruno doing at La Palue thing with a Nah Skwell Quad/ Sealion lookalike?? that looked pretty amazing.
The problem is, i think when i give my board to Bruno he will  rip that one too in a style thats way above my ability.
La Palue is a nice Ocean wavespot with plenty of space and flat water between the waves. On a spot like that i,m pretty sure i could make a Sealion work for me too as well as when i lose a 15kg.
But for living at the kind of spot i live and with my posture the SL is a no go.
So to finnish with where i started: it really depends on your weight and your spot.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Hi

Sealion is a shortboard (fish) stand up paddle. It needs 100% active rider! That is not the right volume to wait comfortable without paddling...  It takes few session to feel comfortable, but will never be as comfortable as a 50 litres more shape!
At the Mondial Sealion Contest, the rider who finished 2nd was 95kgs! I am 82. Of course when the spot is choppy, it is even more difficult, I agree. but on flat and glassy conditions, 100 kgs riders have approved the volume!
Concerning turns and capacities, the blogs shows other riders able to ride the Sealion very radical too...really short and fast turns!
It depends of course the way you like to ride and involvement in action!

Sealion XL is available anyway: the Summer Board! same shape's philosophy in a 9' long board. Same look. Feeling is cool and more comfortable.

The best is to try many times without thinking or looking for some feeling you already have or know.
Looking for new sensations every new session. If you accept to discover something new and different, you must accept to take time to learn how. Then Sealion is the right board for you!
If you you want to get all of it at your first try and find some limits day after day, that is definitely not the right board!
I often compare the Sealion and Seal with the Superfreak.
I have many friends who tried my rig one time and did not like it.... And unfortunately, they never took time to try more to discover this amazing sail!

Burns

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

My 9.8 is 145l so its only 10l difference and not 50....
And i was still able to SUP pretty comfy on 23/9 at Palue
<image>
To give an idea about the size of the waves, 1,m 188 and was standing overthere while paddling out. (i never sit on my knees)

For you it might be able to paddle the SL in really choppy conditions we got:
<image>

But for me it wasnt, neither after a 2 weeks pretty intense trying.
I still really like the concept a lot and when i was living at Britanny i would have one because i,m pretty sure that over there i would have no problems riding it.
But and thats also to keep in mind, its not an board that works everywhere.
At least not above certain weight.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Cool thanks

I am 70kgs and would be sailing it in light wind on the california coast (beach and point breaks).  I kind of want to use it to transition into the waves on a windsurfer (and if it doubles as an SUP great). 

AM i correct in saying the 9'8" SB does not plane very well?

Last edited by physiorol (2010-02-03 07:07:50)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I can honestly say that the SUPs plane very bad. big_smile
SUPs aren,t designed to plane and if you can, you probably also will with a 95l FSW board with the same sailsize. roll
What i do with a sail is slogging out upwind, make a fast tack when we wave comes in and ride back on the wave.

If you wanna plane and your spot isnt too choppy a SL can be great and get you earlier going as an any lightwindwaveboard or most FSW boards. Like Burns wrote, its really Fishy/shortboardsurfing a like (altough a verrrry wide one) while SUP is more cruising the longboard way.
Its a matter of prefference

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

A bit on a tangent, but it seems to me that everyone is trying to get a planing wave board that planes and works in very light wind. The longboards were a nice fad for a while but then we wanted to plane and catch a small swell without giving up light wind ability.

So far the closest that I have come is my Real Wind 133 litres, but I am always trying to improve the compromises.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

First, I do not want to take to much space up from Henderson the blog is more about his Sails then about the Sealion but some people use the super freak on it and are very happy with the combo so I take a chance. The Sealion is planning early, rides waves and turns super nice like a Surfboard aka big fish. It is made for 5 to 15 miles wind and surfing waves between 2 and 9 foot not to fast and not to steep it is great in such conditions.
I tried out many products (also the super freak haha pretty cool sail) but I have not sailed anything (board) that can plan as early, ride the wave as agile, is stable and punch trough the white water as easy and good as the Sealion. Try it out spend a couple hours on it. On the note of a 9’8” turning as well ??? for sure if it turns as well it wont plan haha so far the Sealion is pretty unique credit to Bruno and Pascal. Bruno said is right go outside of the box and live it.

Have fun

Jurg and the WSD guy’s on Sealion’s ha-ha

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I agree with both Jeroen and Dolf, it's just that Jeroen seems to like a longboard for what it is but Dolf is drawn back to planing. Both preferences are legitimate.

My (admittedly) limited riding on longboards tells me it's a totally different animal. To me, a longboard is more about GLIDING, not planing. Longboards CAN plane, but all-around riding (not planing) is their strong suit. IMO, stepped tail boards (e.g., KONA) go a good ways toward bridging the gap, but I need more riding on them to see if they can completely fill the gap. I don't see much of that being posted around the internet, so I rather expect that they're STILL a compromise. Such a conclusion would recapitulate the age-old lessons of yacht design, too. The laws of hydrodynamics make it very difficult to have a single solution good for a huge range of functions.

Thus, I look to longboards for the surf-sailing mode, and boards like the SeaLion (or in my case the A117) for planing mode. The quest for the one that does both is interesting, but it's a bit pricey to try more than a few...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

One thing, as a novice wavesailer, that draws me to the SL is that it might be easier for me to get out the back with out getting creamed.

cheers

Roland

Most likely I will Demo the SL soon and check it out.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Nice discussion here, my conclusion so far:
1. Sealion is to small to SUP in real world waves over 80 kg rider weight
2. SUPs don't plane
3. Steptails plane, but are all > 10' / 3m despite the Tabou Windstyler Small, what seems to be an issue for many riders reg. transport/storage (me too)

So what about a 9'8" SUP with a steptail for the holy grail? Anyone tried that?
Or what about the SL XL aka Summerboard? SUP or Planer or both?

Alex

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Not SUPable but in the UK the rave about the Kona Minitanker for slogging out in almost no wind
http://www.kona-windsurfing.com/product … tanker.asp

<image>
260x65x120l ofo40cm
I think it will plane a little later, but what i PERSONAL like about it that when you plane, you also got straps for a more secure feel and a better handling in chop.

Last edited by Jeroensurf (2010-02-04 08:14:45)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Yeah the MiniTanker does look fun - especially for mushy waves. I sailed a 10'5" TT & it was really fun even in choppy B&J which surprised me...

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I had thought about the minitanker I might put some more thought to it

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Caleb,

Did you use the 10'5" in gliding (as opposed to planing) conditions?

I've been wondering about the 10'5" or 11'5" as a one-board replacement for the Pacifico Wave and *B Aero 117. Have also considered the Kona Surf - not so much wanting the centerboard myself, but just for versatility as a loaner to smaller (hopefully female) intermediate sailors.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

The minitanker is a really nice board for lightwind wavesailing, BUT you can't SUP it!

It seems to me that the SUP application seems to be MUST now for many wavesailors, so the smaller Konas don't fit this requirement any more.

It seems, that it comes down to "As small as possible for lightwindsailing but also as large as neccesary for SUP with optional steptail yes/no if you want the board to plane".
Any custom shapers outside?

Alex

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Geoff wrote:

Caleb,

Did you use the 10'5" in gliding (as opposed to planing) conditions?

I've been wondering about the 10'5" or 11'5" as a one-board replacement for the Pacifico Wave and *B Aero 117. Have also considered the Kona Surf - not so much wanting the centerboard myself, but just for versatility as a loaner to smaller (hopefully female) intermediate sailors.

Hey Geoff,

Yeah it was full planing 5.8 - 5.3 conditions. Obviously planed very quickly & schlogged very smoothly & quick but glide? I dunno, I didn't really sail any other SUP's to compare. What was shocking was how lively it was - both in a straight line & cranking off the odd windswell & in the jibes. As for paddling it, I would say it may be a bit narrow for all but the lightest of guys - or flat water. I have seen allot of images of a guy in San Francisco paddling his 11'5" into some decent waves at Fort Point. So the 11'5" would be doable I think.

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

I'm not going to paddle it - I'd rather go biking or golfing. But I am mostly constrained to fresh water, so maybe the 11'5 is the call....

Thanks for the input!

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Sealion is doing ok with over 80KG guys in real waves just needs a couple hours practice:
Check the bro from the Sealion the NS 7'8" better for SUP with heavy guys as it sits lower in the water
Video from Firstimers on the NS78 http://www.windsurfdeal.com/?link=17  on this NS78 the Super freak work well as a couple guys proofed it already haha are you the next.
http://leblogdusealion.blogspot.com/   check it out cool pix with the Sealion and super freak and some nice videos.
So go and try out the Sealion the rewards are great. The Sealion is for more sailing 80/20 and the NS is more for SUP 80/20

Jurg    smile  smile

Last edited by WSD (2010-02-10 19:45:28)

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Geoff wrote:

I'm not going to paddle it - I'd rather go biking or golfing. But I am mostly constrained to fresh water, so maybe the 11'5 is the call....

That seems to sum up the gist of the 2 camps and the need for two different boards otherwise you compromise and get something that does neither well. My wife vehemently disagrees with you and I would add 6 more things to the list - almost including visiting the dentist.

My percpetion, possibly based on my bias is that the new thrill of SUP is fading and there is a shift to resurecting long boards that push the light wind envelope.

Salt water is 2.7% denser than fresh water. For my weight this is equivalent to 2.2 litre of displacement. A red herring that should not cloud this productive discussion.

Aloha,

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Re: considering getting an AHD sea lion. Any input appreciated

Well put her on the phone! What is it she disagrees with? The non-paddling thing and choice for alternatives, or trying to get a two-fer? I have no intention of letting go my A117, it's just a matter of where/how to deploy it.

I'll bite my tongue on SUP, as I'm not a surfer and I can see it's advantage over plain surfing. But I do like sailing and sail-surfing longboards.

Visiting the dentist is the last thing on my wish list. Though I admit that visiting his hygienist is worth the price of admission...

Eww. Your salt/fresh water comment gets me. In the case of Kona 10.5/11.5, I see 140 vs 170 L, and I like the idea of 140 but the float of 170 would be nice for light wind sailing and loaning to smaller sailors - but the question is which board makes it easier to catch mushy waves? I figure the 11.5. So then the notion of going for the K Surf, at 170 L but a little more all-arounder with a CB.

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