10 16 07 the saddest day at hookipa (Page 1 of 2)

sad day indeed, pity of those tourists' stuff!
I think teh rule you explain on your blog is indeed much better than the actual one...
I always liked Josh Stone, seen a vid of him when I was surfing 2 years or something, but this is windsurfing attitude!

Stronsisimo!!! i have an idea about a new law also. What about a 5 or 10 man law but for surfers. I still like the idea of no windsurf before 11 but if we put a law that if there are 5 or 10 windsurfers out the surfers need to move to middles. I think that would be fair enough because they could still surf in middles and if there are more than 5 windsurfers out it means that the conditions are good enough for windsurfing. or another rule: no more Italian engeneers in the water!!!!!hahha take care bro and hope we dont have more problems at hookipa.

Dolf, that was an explanation the event organizer sent me. I actually don't believe it. Sure it didn't help, but I think the event was canceled because the main sponsor pulled back.

Andres scrotone!!! Your reverse 10 man rule made me laugh... maybe they could do like that on monday, wednesdays and fridays and viceversa on tuesday, thursday and saturday... sunday, complete anarchy... or maybe kitesurfing... oh well, that's the same thing!
No, I don't think that would be fair either, 'cause you'll always find 10 windsurfers ready to sail no matter how light the wind is... I'll be one of those!
Anyway, I hope you sailed/surfed somewhere today. Kanaha was really, really good. Not particularly big, but just fun, fun, fun...

I just had my fingertips on the "book" button for an upcoming Maui trip. Well, I didn't book. There are many, many nice things about Maui, but the no 1 reason I go there is to sail Hookipa. With this... I don't know.

I've heard a few rumors about big companies canceling annual photo shoots too, and that was even before this last series of events. Just to much hostility.

Sad, indeed.

Hi guys,

I did a bit of looking into this issue.  The DLNR is a State of Hawaii department, not a Maui County one, so this falls under their domain.  HAR §13-256-127 (bottom of GP's sign picture) is the number for this individual rule.  I pasted the actual rule at the bottom of this post for any who are interested, as these things often contain little clues that may not be readily evident, such as that this map was dated August 20, 1988. 

Most interesting to me so far is this snip found in a planning description discussing recreational use in Hawaii (also taken from the state's website),

"On the north shore of Maui (at Kanaha and Ho’okipa) surfers and kiteboards/windsurfers
stay out of each other’s use areas, and there are rules, such as the 10-man surf rule, that
started as a gentlemen’s agreement and are now written into rule (HAR §13-256-127)."

This clearly states that the gentlemen's agreement was the basis for this later rule.  This is interesting, and may be a potentially useful piece for later argumentation.  Consider:  What was the nature of this pre-existing gentlemen's agreement, that had been working?  Was it that windsurfers had effectively no rights to any water time at Ho'okipa?  That does not pass the logic test, as windsurfers have always had a spot (within a time range and when conditions favored their activity) at Ho'okipa.  In the past, another element of this never entirely defined agreement was that after 11:00, and if the wind came up to a significant enough level that the conditions were more favorable for the activity of windsurfing then of surfing, then the priority in that zone changed to a windsurfing priority.  If that agreement was intended to be honored by this (now written) rule, then that may be substantial reason to appealing the language of the rule, so that the intent of the original agreement is more closely met.

By the way, don't tack to close to the dry reef on the inside.  By these rules, that's a ticket too

Here is the rule in its entirety:

§13-256-127 Hookipa Restricted Zones.
(a) Zones A, B, C and D, Hookipa restricted zones means
the areas confined by the boundaries shown for said zones on
Exhibit "WW", dated August 20, 1988, located at the end of
this subchapter. The boundaries are as follows:
(b) Zone A, Hookipa restricted Zone.
(1) Beginning at a point at the low water mark at
the northern tip of Hookipa Point; thence
measured clockwise from True South, 075 degrees
for a distance of seven hundred fifty feet; 360
degrees to the boundary of Zone D; then along
the boundary of Zone D and the low water mark of
the shoreline to the point of beginning.
(2) Restriction. Zone A is designated for swimming
and surfing only. No person shall operate a
sailboard or other water craft within this area.
(c) Zone B, Hookipa restricted Zone.
(1) Beginning at a point at the low water mark at
the northern tip of Hookipa Point; thence
measured clockwise from True South, to a
beginning point in the water 075 degrees for a
distance of seven hundred fifty feet; then
continuing at 075 degrees for a distance of five
hundred
256-70
§13-256-
128
fifty feet; 360 degrees to the shoreline; then along
the shoreline to Zone D and along the boundary of
Zone D to the boundary of Zone A; then by straight
line north to the point of beginning.
(2) Restriction. Zone B is designated for surfing
when at least five or more persons (5-man rule)
are engaged in surfing within this zone. No
person shall operate a sailboard within this
zone within the surf break area.
(d) Zone C, Hookipa restricted Zone.
(1) Beginning at a point at the low water mark at
the northern tip of Hookipa Point; thence
measured clockwise from True South, to a
beginning point in the water 075 degrees for a
distance of thirteen hundred feet; then
continuing at 075 degrees for a distance of four
hundred seventy-five feet; 360 degrees to the
shoreline; then along the shoreline to the
boundary of Zone B; then by straight line north
to the point of beginning.
(2) Restriction. Zone C is designated for surfing
when at least ten or more persons (10-man rule)
are engaged in surfing within this zone. No
person shall operate a sailboard within this
zone within the surf break area. Access for
sailboards between the surf break and the
shoreline shall be provided at all times.
(e) Zone D, Hookipa restricted Zone
(1) Beginning at a point at the low water mark
three hundred ninety feet from the western
boundary of Hookipa Beach Park, thence measured
clockwise from True South; 180 degrees for a
distance of one hundred feet; 270 degrees for a
distance of four hundred ten feet; 238 degrees
for a distance of five hundred forty feet; then
in a straight line to the shoreline; then along
the shoreline to the point of beginning.
(2) Restriction. Zone D is designated for pole and
net fishing. No person shall operate a
sailboard within this zone. [Eff 2/24/94 ]
(Auth: HRS §§200-2, 200-3, 200-4) (Imp: HRS
§§200-2, 200-3, 200-4)

Last edited by Rand (2007-10-19 03:30:30)

Sound stupid, but can anybody explain me 10 and 5 men rule?

Hi Ola,

I hope that my comment was not a significant factor in your not booking a trip here. Please allow me to put my comments in context.

I do believe that there is a tension on the island between the locals and howlies. It was here almost 30 years ago when I first started coming here. It is somewhat worse now and I guess that in 30 years it will be even worse and I will find another place to go to. But to put that in context I have experienced a much worse degree of that in some caribbean islands.

I do not sail at Hookipa (I will give it a go one day), so I have no direct knowledge of the tension there, but I do have a significnat indirect amout of information. There has always been some inevitable tension at Hookipa and it occasionally flares up. In the big scheme of things it is not significant. Just like any other place with any other activity one needs to exercise some common sense and stay out of obvious trouble.

I absolutely agree with GP that it was a sad day at Hookipa, just like i think that it is beyond sad that paradise here is very slowly but steadily getting paved and that the tensions are very slowly but steadily increasing as the number of people on the island increase and bring more big city problems. But is that not a world wide trend with everything and does it not just require us to be a bit smarter to enjoy ourselves just as much?

i am not going to reiterate the positive aspects of Maui. There was a whole thread devoted to that which i agree with and contributed to.

I think that both aspects are true. It would be false to not admit the escalating problems. On the other hand there is incredible beauty if one is willing to make an effort to participate in it. With my lessons and screw ups I do try to add a bit of the latter to the world and reduce a bit of the former and believe Louis Armstrong that it is a beautiful world.

I do hope to see you here.

Much Aloha,

Last edited by Dolf (2007-10-19 09:11:11)

As a forewarning there are similar rules concerning Kanaha which I believe were drafted at the same time. These have not been enforced in recent years but that could change.
The rule I remember was the no windsurfing within 100 yards of the beach. You could sail to and from the beach, but you can't gybe or do tricks next to the beach. There used to be a series of buoys that marked this area.

Would this be the Polynesians, Philipinos, Japanese, Howlies from the mainland, or illegals from Europe. I believe that the genuine "native" population is a negligible percentage of the total population. Just like the plant and animal life is mainly imported. I believe that the demand to respect the culture is really just a vehicle to indirectly express frustration that the island is being swamped by immigrants and tourists and they feel prostituted by the "need" for the economic benefit and the latent anger that they have to tolerate bad tourist behaviour to not turn off the money tap. It is like being between a rock and a hard place. I think that the battle over the SuperFerry is nothing to do with protecting the whales, but a fear of being even more swamped by outside influence. Way back when i was learning industrial psycology I learned that we do not fear change as commonly assumed, but rather we fear a loss of control caused by outside influence.

I don't think this will happen. In our society the solution to growth is more concrete and more hard regulations.

I was looking forward to meeting you in person. Perhaps another time and place.

FYI, the past two days it has been windy enough with big waves and no surfers out (but quite a few windsurfers...).
So, it's not every day that there's a problem.
Plus, there's always Lanes and the downwind spots...

Hello Elysurf,

Your suggestion may create enough pressure by showing that the windsurfing community is an economic force, to force some improvements for us. But it might also make things worse. I don't have an opinion yet which way is the best to go, I am just putting the other side on the table. I was a member of an American industry association that took a high road political and legal path to correct an injustice in a US federal department. Right was on our side but the beaurocrats became very defensive and passive agressive and set back our cause a decade. It was an expensive lesson for our industry.

We drive by Hookipa every morning on our way to Kanaha. It is a magnificant view of the swells and wind and gives us a good indication of the weather that is coming to Kanaha. The last few days things are back to where they normally are. Surfers out in the early morning slowly replaced by windsurfers as the day wears on. I am sure that the underlying problems, and frustrations that have been there for a long time are still there and I think go far deeper than just at Hookipa, but they are under the surface and everyone is able to do their thing. It is an acceptable status quo, I think. Not to say that there will not be another flare up next year but after a day that one will probably die down as well. To illustrate my point, I think that Ola could come for his vacation and not see anything any different and not find any evidence that there had been one sad day at Hookipa.

If we really do "lance the boil" as it were, we may raise big issues that there are no simple solutions to, and we may force the beaurocrats and politicans to make decisions that are not in our interest, especially if we are seem as the "trouble makers" that "created" the problem rather than just the party who said the emperor is not wearing any clothes. This is a tourist island. It is not good politics or ecomomics to publicize that there are problems that might discourage the tourists that stay in the expensive hotels from coming.

As I said, I am not sure what, if anything we should do, but I would suggest a cautious impact analysis before anyone did anything.

Last edited by Dolf (2007-10-20 04:36:15)

Your idea of creating a link to this forum after you've added a new post on your blog sounds good to me, Giampaolo.  You might also want to cut/paste the blog responses to the forum when you add a new entry, too. 

     I'm very happy to hear that the "status quo" has returned to Ho'okipa, but I agree, I might not last very long.  I think we might have to lance that boil one of these days......

Happy sailing,

Ely