It is very stable on flat bay and rough ocean conditions.
I use it on the ocean as a SUP and ride waves when the
swells up.

I was a bit sceptical of what I'd get out of a SUP but after an average surf on my minimal on Sunday I had a good 2 hours on a mates Starboard 9'8''. I got on really well on the small surf and loved it. I though being 90+kg it would be difficult and it wasn't!! Got loads of waves.

Now as an SUP this size works for me but how does it fair with a sail? Does the extra weight make it more unstable? My friends hasn't got the mast track so I can't try it but, like on sunday I'd imagine with a light cross on it would go well.

I don't really want to go much bigger as I don't want to loose the manouverablity in the surf.

Any views?

I hadn't found such thorough input on the Windstyler before. Seems like a good option for all-around funboard.

Flatwater: checked.
I had it out on the lake with a 7.0 and 9.0, fin 36 / 46. Worked fine, negative: dagger fontaine, i put a pool noodle in. The goods: thight turns, planing ok, speed good (in the most rear strap position!), compared to the slalom guys it looses in planing and speed, no suprise here, but a new impression (being a (fast) former light wind slalom guy), just relax :-). New technique: gain height slogging, when the gust's there head hard downwind for planing. Upwind slogging is much easier than with an normal windsurfer (without dagger!). This technique helps alot gaining planing time on the gusty lake.

Wavesailing: check in progress
Just one day with 5,3 and 5 knots, waves up to 2m, sideshore. Great fun, slogging out against the breaking waves no problem (size matters), stalling behind the line up, waiting for the right wave, 2 pumps and there you go, i just hadn't the balls for going fast frontside in the steep sections (next exercise). Negative: a little stiff in the turns, reason to be explored (rails and rocker, foot position, balls ....)

SUP: Flatwater checked, waves in progress
On Flatwater o.k. now, even in slight chop (but don't ask about my first day, disillusioning)
Waves (just one day already), going out ok, but i wasn't able to catch a wave.

I don't regret the buy, seems like a real multi pupose tool.

Alex

I agree the 8.0 SF is an excellent sail, but rather than for the Pacifico Wave, I like it for the Aero 117 and also for the JP 108 Freestyle. Probably will put the 8.0 on the Kona 1 when it arrives...

Last summer, watched a fellow windsurfer who had admired my rig bring his brand new Kona 11.5 and MauiSails 11m rig with Fiberspar 100% carbon mast and boom down to the beach.  His launch was an ill-timed failure, at the cost of the mast, sail, and boom.  Ouch.  I wouldn't expect a Psychofreak to preform like a race sail, but I would expect it to be easier to use in every other respect, and hopefully to have a similar sensation of power in a near-zephyr.

The 8.0 Freak is pretty great, though (that's the sail I use 90% of the time with the Pacifico).

We should make some noise about the 10.0 SF UL. My 9.5 Speed Demon and 520 Reflex 5000 are up for sale with a serious buyer hunting...once the 520 is gone, I won't be looking back.

(For those who aren't familiar with this recurring discussion, I LOVE how the 9.5 Speed Demon works on the 520, I just am tired of uphauling such a big rig...repeat, there is absolutely nothing the matter with the Speed Demon, I'm just ready to 'move on' to where an 8.0 SF is big enough for me...).

Another aspect of my sailing is a very similar situation - most of my TOW is on the Finger Lakes in upstate NY, with no Great Lake or ocean swells. Flat water stuff, I wanted a board that would be good for progressing students (moreso than my own use), not too complicated but a taste of funboarding...and after looking and looking, I ordered a Kona One. There's a good reason it's the most popular board in the world. You also are going to want to use this thing for a LONG time. I see lots of people show up with Waylers and original Windsurfers and early 80's boards, and many are having trouble finding parts. Love it or leave it, the Allgier dagger system is a current "standard", and you're likely to be able to find parts. Plus, Exocet has adopted the one-design mantra, driving sales up and generating a long-term demand for parts. The rest of the board is durable...the only downside is that it's not a great SUP.

In a situation similar to yours, just yesterday I ordered a Kona One.

Best wishes,
GEM

PS - I was sorely tempted by the new (and un-reviewed) Mistral Ventura. Another name from the past...the new one is a traditional (wide) pintail, no step, adjustable mast track, parts handed down from generations of Mistrals (mast track and centerboard). I like the shape, traditional bottom, it ought to be a REAL hybrid between days of yore and new gear. I hope to test ride one in October, but didn't want to wait that long.

This has been an interesting discussion  ,  and I agree that  there are two ways to look at  SUP/Sailing ...   one is to design   boards more like Windsurfers with   a planing   oriented flatter tail  ,   and the successful  Kona  step tail design , the other is  to take a  real Standup Paddleboard with a  surf rocker and add a mast step .. the Jungle  is  , like you say  ,  this kind of design ..  It paddles  great  , is very light  ,    has a removable   rather than retractable daggerboard   which saves on weight   when you want to use it as  Standup board ...   I find that it  goes upwind fine in moderate wind without the  daggerboard just by railing the board ... while it does not plane like   a  more dedicated planing windsurf design  , the planing when powered up or overpowered is very controllable  without the need for foot straps  .  I sail it powered up  in choppy big river conditions and  use a harness  ,    the board seems to   plane slower  in the same condition than a dedicated windsurf board with the Jungle having the  tail more "in the water "  ( I use the  stock surf fin ) .  This  is a different feel to the plane but still quite  enjoyable ..  Rather than rocketing along at mach speed on a planing board with a bigger  fin  and  with most of the board lifting out of the water , my tail is more in the water as the nose lifts and front half of the board lifts out ...    this allows the board to  be quite controllable in  higher winds  even in choppy water  without straps ... 

I like this  older vid  where a   guy   put a mast step on  a  standard 11-4  paddleboard    .this is the kind of  planing  and sailing    that   occurs with  surfboard type  SUP's with  sails  , differrent and slower than  dedicated windsurf boards but   very fun , none the less.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlCrAF9kt8

Here is a nice thread from I windsurf forum that compares the  Bic Jungle a bit to the Step tails  and some point , counterpoint  discussion about   surfboard designed  SUP sailboards vs  windsurfer planing designs ..

http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtop … 4feba04eb6

thanx for your helpfull answers.
Mike, you seem to be a longboard/SUP collector :-)
Your direct comparison regarding the planing perfomance really helps making my decision.
The Bic Jungle seems to be alike the Pacifico Wave, also no real "planer".

For me the flatwater sailing part is important, as i'm living in the middle of europe, the nearest swells are an 8hour drive away, so at home it's windsurfing on smaller lakes or SUP on the lakes or the river i live at, plus the board is for wife and kids. The Swells i get on my 8 weeks of holiday where i go to the shores of europe.

The Longboards like the RRD Longrider and Tabou Windstyler seem to be an alternative to the Kona 11'5, where they loose is weight as they are about 2-3 kg heavier than the Kona 11'5 due to the daggerboard. For this Boards some light plates to remove and close the daggerboard fittings would be the option i'm thinking off. But what i read ist, that they have a flatter rockerline, so the surfing part seems to be limited.

SUP needs volume and width, that i've learned, so the Kona 11'5 having 70cm of width seems to be the minimum i would need, the 10'5 or smaller are no SUPable options. (But having seen a Kona 11'5 suping under the Golden Gate Bridge on You Tube was quite impressive).

Alex

I have the Mistral Pacifico, the Kona 11'5 and the Starboard 9'8.

Whilst I haven't had a chance to get them in the surf I think Geoff has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

However if you want to have a board in that range that would plane with decent speed, be fun in freeride mode and is good to gybe then the Kona would be the pick of them. The Kona is SUPable but this is not its forte.

The Pacifico is good allrounder for SUP and sail but would be very basic in the surf. The Pacifico will also take a 9m Superfreak for those lighter summer winds.

The Starboard 9'8 is primarily suited to surf SUP (so not really a planing hull). I am yet to have a satisfying flatwater sail with it (no surprise as this is not its design brief) and have tried four different fin arrangements but it just doesn't seem to work for me.

So in answer to your specific question you do lose a lot IMO, from a flatwater sailing perspective, between the Kona and the 9'8.

By way of comparison, sailing in bumpy shallow bay conditions ie confused chop, the Pacifico achieves about 26.5 knots top speed and the Kona 28knots, in flatwater you would crack 30knots on the Kona - not earth shattering but decent for an allrounder. The Kona feels much more more nimble and responsive.

Happy sailing,

Mike

Konas, therefore, are a different breed intended to both sail-surf AND planing windsurf. Sail-surfing is about glide, walking all over the board, sailing backside front to back, and is VERY laid-back; windsurfing is about planing in the straps and harness, frontside sailing, amped-up jumping, etc. It's like the difference between cross-country skiing and alpine skiing. Two completely different sports (though descents on modern XC skis is a blast and a lot closer to alpine than ever).

From what I've read, the step-tail design facilitates doing both kinds with one board, but like all watercraft it has got to be a compromise. To get the best of both worlds, it surely takes a gliding hull for one and a planing hull for the other (i.e., 2 different boards). But if the Kona can do both modes fairly well, the ease of use and convenience of just one board seems pretty nice.

I understand the Longrider is a total blast, though it sends up a water fountain through the slot when it's planing. To me, 340 x 70 @ 170L is a very nice set of dimensions, especially for a 70-90 kg sailor. The Kona Surf is probably too narrow for good SUP, but I suspect in the right hands it sings.

The Longrider and the Kona Surf are really the closest we have to the old Mistral Malibu, which was a board I rode when I was beginning and I really liked it a lot. I think the industry needs more boards in the 320-340 x 70-75 @ 170-190 L range. Good for flatwater cruising, sail-surfing, longboard planing, family board, freestyle. This was windsurfing one-board/one-sail at it's spiritual best, and we need to get it back.

(And of course the perfect sail for it is a brightly-colored Freak).

Alex